Crofts Candy Color Run

[ullmandds]

With the blue crofts miller some of you out there helped me to acquire...thank you very very much...I now have the color run of crofts candy for miller.

Does anyone else out there have a crofts candy color run of the same front???

[x2drich2000]

Pete, as always, very impressive. As far as I am aware there are only a few combinations that are even possible: Evers, Davis (does a black exist?), Crawford, Shean, Barry, and Miller (fielding).

DJ

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Holy smokes! Those are beautiful

[VoodooChild]

Sweet! Congrats, that is one impressive run.

[ullmandds]

Thanks guys...dj The possibilities are definitely limited by The small population of Redbacks found. I would have to hope every other is available with a blue and or a black but who knows!!

[cdn_collector]

Oh wow. That's cool. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

Richard.

[phlflyer1]

Congratulations Pete, those are awesome to see together!

[edjs]

Wow, there's something you don't see everyday! Very cool.

[Thirteen]

Had the scans for a while, finally got prodded into posting them Nice Millers! The red is beat up but it does have a wst of the back on front

[edjs]

Well, maybe you two see this everyday.

[ValKehl]

A couple of years ago, I decided to work on a back run of this Jennings pose. Has anyone ever seen a Croft's Candy red back of this pose?

[ullmandds]

nice dave...not sure val?

[ullmandds]

oh and Dave...only T206 guys care about WST's!!!!!

[x2drich2000]

Dave very nice! Out of curiosity, do you also have the menagerie back? If you ever have a desire to sell the red back, please let me know

Val, from the list of e92 difficult backs thread, Jennings was not reported with the red croft, menagerie, prize fighter, or blank backs.

DJ

[tiger8mush]

nice, Pete!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Val, from the list of e92 difficult backs thread, Jennings was not reported with the red croft, menagerie, prize fighter, or blank backs.

DJ

Thanks DJ for reminding me of this informative thread you started a couple of years ago. I'm happy to assume that a Croft's Candy red back of Jennings doesn't exist!
Val

[Thirteen]

DJ, unfortunately I do not have the menagerie back - these are the only 3 I have. Thought about trying to get other backs but I either didn't have the funds or it was out-prioritized at the time . It's even worse today with multiple auctions every month...just can't decide which cards to focus on.
-Dave

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Dave very nice! Out of curiosity, do you also have the menagerie back? If you ever have a desire to sell the red back, please let me know

Val, from the list of e92 difficult backs thread, Jennings was not reported with the red croft, menagerie, prize fighter, or blank backs.

DJ

[Thirteen]

Thanks Pete, and oh yeah on T206 and the WSTs The first time I typed it came out WTF - good thing I reread before sending.
-Dave

Originally Posted by ullmandds

oh and Dave...only T206 guys care about WST's!!!!!

[Leon]

Never seen a red backed Jennings...I would guess, and it's only a guess, all of the players should have a red back too. I think more will be found in the future as many old timers only collected fronts and as their collections come to market.

btw Pete, nice run.

Originally Posted by ValKehl

A couple of years ago, I decided to work on a back run of this Jennings pose. Has anyone ever seen a Croft's Candy red back of this pose?

[x2drich2000]

Leon, I think you are right that more of the red backs will eventually come out. Based on some really old posts on this board, it seems like there were only about 3 examples known in the hobby about 10 years ago (prior to your hoard). Now there are at least 15 examples that have been confirmed. However, I'm hesitant to say all of the possible cards will exist with the red back. I find it very odd that of those confirmed so far, about half the players have more than 1 example confirmed. In addition, from my experience, it seems even among the blue and black backs there are certain player/back combinations that are harder to find and certain combinations that may not exist. While I think more could be crossed off, from the link I provided above, we still have 11 blue backs that have not been confirmed. That is over 20% of the generally accepted set.

DJ

[Leon]

Only time will tell but I think there will definitely be more,
never before E92 front/back combos, as the hobby continues to mature. They are fun to collect, no doubt. I wouldn't doubt I pick up a few in the future, for old times sake...

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Leon, I think you are right that more of the red backs will eventually come out. Based on some really old posts on this board, it seems like there were only about 3 examples known in the hobby about 10 years ago (prior to your hoard). Now there are at least 15 examples that have been confirmed. However, I'm hesitant to say all of the possible cards will exist with the red back. I find it very odd that of those confirmed so far, about half the players have more than 1 example confirmed. In addition, from my experience, it seems even among the blue and black backs there are certain player/back combinations that are harder to find and certain combinations that may not exist. While I think more could be crossed off, from the link I provided above, we still have 11 blue backs that have not been confirmed. That is over 20% of the generally accepted set.

DJ

[Rhotchkiss]

Reviving this thread to inquire of the group whether anyone is aware of another E92 Blue Crofts Candy Cobb. I just acquired this one (thanks a ton Ed!) and neither of us is aware of another (which likely means there a dozen out there...)

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you mean Candy right?

I would assume other colors exist as well in the candy variety

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you mean Candy right?

I would assume other colors exist as well in the candy variety

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Reviving this thread to inquire of the group whether anyone is aware of another E92 Blue Crofts Cocoa Cobb. I just acquired this one (thanks a ton Ed!) and neither of us is aware of another (which likely means there a dozen out there...)

Ryan, I know there are 3 or 4 of each of the black and blue Crofts Candy Cobbs. I remember at the AC National I thought about splurging on the one you got, but ultimately decided not to as I knew it wasn't unique. Let me check later tonight and I'll see if I can get you a few links to some of the others. There is also posts on the board from a few years ago where someone claims a red croft was sold back in the 80's, but I've never found a listing, image, or any other confirmable proof so I remain skeptical that it exists.

DJ

[Rhotchkiss]

Yes, of course, Candy. I am going to edit thread to correct -- I was so excited to get it I cant tell a candy from a cocoa.

I know there are several Candy blacks out there, but has anyone ever seen another Blue (or Red for that matter)?

DJ -- that would be awesome and most helpful. Thank you. I assume there must be others, but I cannot find any and Ed was aware of no others. I am still happy to own this -- unique or not, its rare as heck - but would still love to know how many others we know are out there

[x2drich2000]

Here is a list of all the black and blue Cobbs I could account for tonight based on the PSA and SGC pop reports. Lots still missing. From this thread, John Spencer indicated he previously had a blue Cobb, but thought it was a PSA 4. Based on the pop reports, and the only sale of the PSA 4 I have, that can't be accurate.

I also don't have VCP so not sure if any others show up there. Hopefully some other members (petecld?) can fill in some of these gaps. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few of these were crossed over at different times.

Grade - Cert # - back color - link/notes if available
PSA
A - no info
1 - unknown - unknown - PSA Registry
1 - no info
1 - no info
3 - 03395406 - black - http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=116260
3 - no info
4 - 05033714 - black - Legendary April 2007
6 - no info

SGC
A - 1377525-043 - blue - http://www.brockelmanauctions.com/Lo...entoryid=11374 (Ryan's copy)
10 - 1207583-064 - black - http://www.brockelmanauctions.com/Lo...ventoryid=4379 (Tonyetrade)
10 - no info
20 - ??? - black - SGC registry
20 - no info
20 - no info
40 - no info
40 - no info
50 - 1302992-008 - black - https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=39204
50 - unknown

[C-mack]

Nice!! Congrats on the run , now who has a bill bergen Croft cocoa back for me !? Lol

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks DJ. Attached is what VCP shows - the SGC A is the blue one and the SGC 50, which is real pretty, is a black back. I came up with less than what you did- I know Brockelman sold a black-back 1 in 2013; this is the same one that Tony Arnold has on eBay.

The PSA pop report shows 8 graded E92 Crofts Candy Cobbs. SGC show ten graded (incidentally, The Cocoa back seems to be at least 2-3 times more scarce). The problem is that neither pop report distinguishes between colors, so we don’t know how many are black vs blue (or red?).

An extensive google search did not turn up pictures or mention of any other Crofts blue back, which continues to beg the question of whether this is the only “known” one? If anyone has Cobb Croft’s Candy backs, please post, especially if blue or red.

[gabrinus]

Go for a Nadja Cobb Ryan......Jerry

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by gabrinus

Go for a Nadja Cobb Ryan......Jerry

Hi Jerry. I would love one. Does it exist?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Hi Jerry. I would love one. Does it exist?

None graded by PSA or SGC. Several years ago some board members claimed they used to own one but no one was ever able/willing to show any proof.

[Rhotchkiss]

DJ, comparing Cobb and Wagner with respect to E100's/E92 (and similar) backs, a few odd results follow. I wonder if you or anyone knows answers;

Wagner has two E90-1 poses (throwing and batting), and both of those poses generally are known in all variations (E101, E102, E105, E106, E92 Dockman, Crofts Cocoa, Crofts Candy (blue and black), Nadja (and blank?), D303, T216 and so on...

However, Cobb's only E90-1 pose is the batting pose. We find that batting pose in the E105, E106, T216 and D303 sets, along with his leaning on bat pose. However, in the E92 sets, we find only Cobb's leaning on bat pose, which is also his sole pose in E101 and E102 sets, but is not in the E90-1 set.

Why are both Wagner poses in all of these sets, whereas both Cobb poses are not in all of the same sets, some are mutually exclusive, and some sets have both poses?

I am sure this has been discussed, but why do research when I can just ask?!

[x2drich2000]

Ryan, I do not have a definitive answer for you, so I'm just thinking out loud and this is pure speculation, but two things immediately come to my mind.

1) E92/E101/E102 etc are generally considered 1908-1910 issues, E90-1 generally is dated 1909-11, and the T216, E106, D303 are generally believed to be after 1912. So with that in mind, it seems like the leaning on bat came first, and the batting was added as a second pose.

2) For E90-1, the Cobb on bat is remarkably similar to the pose used for Joe Jackson. At the time, Cobb was already a well established star and Jackson was just starting out. I could see them not wanting to include both with the same basic pose, therefore, only including Cobb batting. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have just came up with a different pose for Jackson. For the T216/E106, Jackson was not included in those sets so there was no issue with reusing the leaning on bat pose and, therefore, getting a second pose for Cobb in the process.

DJ

[Rhotchkiss]

DJ, theory 1 sounds plausible for sure, but as Ted (and others will argue), the E102 actually came out in 1909-1910 (not 1908), by virtue of Cobb’s center field designation. Theory 2 is interesting, but do you think they really viewed a young and then-very-unproven Joe Jackson as “pose threat” to the great Ty Cobb? Regardless, both theories are interesting and I definitely think 1 has real merit and 2 is at worst intriguing. Thanks for thoughts.

[gabrinus]

Ryan, DJ is right...none has been spotted but a few years ago I think a member claimed to have seen/owned one...if it is who I am thinking of he made a few other dubious claims...would be an incredible find...Jerry

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks Jerry!

[x2drich2000]

It has taken a lot longer than I originally thought, but finally managed to finish an E92 single pose color run.

[ullmandds]

NICE DJ!!!!! It's not so easy!!!!! Especially with you cornering the market on reds!!!!!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Very, very cool! Thanks for sharing.

[Rhotchkiss]

Congrats DJ. That is awesome.

[x2drich2000]

Thanks guys, even taking the reds out of the equation, this type of run is a lot harder than one would expect at first.

DJ