$OLD pet peeve

[PhillipAbbott79]

As a buyer for a card, that may potentially sell it at some point in the future, the last thing I want is someone using the sale price of the exact card I am selling(the price I paid for it) to be used as a negotiation tactic when trying to buy the card from me.

Removing the price I paid for a card is great. Gauging prices can be done in lots of other ways.

[sycks22]

I get more pissed off when people bump the thread with "Sold". Nobody needs to know that a thread from 3 weeks ago is now sold.

[RedsFan1941]

how about when a card has been on the BST, bumped a few times and doesn't sell. then you see it in eBay as an auction, where it "sells." then a few weeks later the original seller has it on the BST again. then you see it in one of the smaller auction houses, where it "sells." then, a few weeks later, the same seller has it on the BST again. that's kind of a pet peeve.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

As a buyer for a card, that may potentially sell it at some point in the future, the last thing I want is someone using the sale price of the exact card I am selling(the price I paid for it) to be used as a negotiation tactic when trying to buy the card from me.

Removing the price I paid for a card is great. Gauging prices can be done in lots of other ways.

+1

To me, it's all about privacy. Once the transaction is complete, it's between buyer & seller. Wasn't a public auction, so the deal is considered private.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

+1

To me, it's all about privacy. Once the transaction is complete, it's between buyer & seller. Wasn't a public auction, so the deal is considered private.

Thank God a reasonable response! I've said this a million times and no one wants to listen. Everyone just wants free information so they can price their items accordingly. Do your homework (like the rest of us) and price your items based on your research.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

+1

To me, it's all about privacy. Once the transaction is complete, it's between buyer & seller. Wasn't a public auction, so the deal is considered private.

But the listing was posted on a public forum. The original listing and asking price should remain just that. Public information. The deal that was made from that listing is obviously private.

This is about how I remember the discussion going last time. A few on both ends who don't really get the opposite point of view. And just as many in the middle who don't really care either way.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Don't be selfish and delete the prices. Keep em intact for the good of the community. Who cares if someone down the road sees what you paid for the card. Doesn't mean you have to let that figure into the negotiation when it's time to sell. And for those who just plain don't think it's their job to help educate their fellow hobbyists, well that's just selfish and not in the spirit of net54 BST

[PhillipAbbott79]

I believe that a person may be wiling to make one offer, that completely differs from another offer that they make, if they know what the buyer has paid for an item.

In a thin market it greatly affects the price.

Think about a card that may be really hard to get. Lets say that only 5 exist. The last time one sold was the exact card you are looking to buy. There are rumors and rumblings you hear through conversations with others, that the card may be worth 30k. You look up and find that the buyer bought it for 15k about 4 years ago. Long enough that you had some trouble finding the price but were able to find it.

Since the price is so subjective, because it doesn't sell often, do you offer him 20k knowing he paid 15k as to allow him to make a nice profit (enticing price just large enough to loosen the card out of his collection) and still leave room for you, having that inside knowledge that the card may now be worth 30k, hoping that he may not have kept up on it or know what you know?

Knowing the exact previous sale price of a card is a MAJOR advantage to the buyer in a negotiation. I have never asked anyone to take down the price, but I definitely am not going to advocate for someone to leave my buy prices up. Ever.

[pokerplyr80]

Most of the cards I own and offer up for sale were purchased from ebay or an auction. Anyone is free to do a little research to find out what I paid. Why should this site be so different? Transactions here are part public, in the listing, and part private, in the discussion and final sale price. It seems reasonable to me that the public part remain public.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I believe that a person may be wiling to make one offer, that completely differs from another offer that they make, if they know what the buyer has paid for an item.

In a thin market it greatly affects the price.

Think about a card that may be really hard to get. Lets say that only 5 exist. The last time one sold was the exact card you are looking to buy. There are rumors and rumblings you hear through conversations with others, that the card may be worth 30k. You look up and find that the buyer bought it for 15k about 4 years ago. Long enough that you had some trouble finding the price but were able to find it.

Since the price is so subjective, because it doesn't sell often, do you offer him 20k knowing he paid 15k as to allow him to make a nice profit (enticing price just large enough to loosen the card out of his collection) and still leave room for you, having that inside knowledge that the card may now be worth 30k, hoping that he may not have kept up on it or know what you know?

Knowing the exact previous sale price of a card is a MAJOR advantage to the buyer in a negotiation. I have never asked anyone to take down the price, but I definitely am not going to advocate for someone to leave my buy prices up. Ever.

I understand your point but find it laughable that the seller in your scenario above would be at a disadvantage. A deal will be made or not regardless of the buyer knowing the price paid (which btw they usually do to Jesse's point above). It's up to the seller to negotiate his price based on what he thinks he can maximize from the market with knowledge that most buyers are trying to get the best deal. If the cards worth $30k who gives an Eff that I paid $15k? Totally irrelevant to the negotiation. I could have received the card from a long lost uncle Joe for free, does that mean I'm more susceptible to selling it for less than its worth? Maybe. But that's the buyer's job to find out. Going back and erasing asking prices is silly

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

I understand your point but find it laughable that the seller in your scenario above would be at a disadvantage. A deal will be made or not regardless of the buyer knowing the price paid (which btw they usually do to Jesse's point above). It's up to the seller to negotiate his price based on what he thinks he can maximize from the market with knowledge that most buyers are trying to get the best deal. If the cards worth $30k who gives an Eff that I paid $15k? Totally irrelevant to the negotiation. I could have received the card from a long lost uncle Joe for free, does that mean I'm more susceptible to selling it for less than its worth? Maybe. But that's the buyer's job to find out. Going back and erasing asking prices is silly

It is not laughable and it is not irrelevant. You could have gotten it from a cousin, but that is not the scenario we are dealing with. The entire thread is about a "BUY Price". being cataloged with an image of the card meaning you paid money for it, and it is documented.

On big cards, yea, sometimes you don't want to sit on the card forever. Sometimes you "HAVE" to move the card and get your money back. "Moving" the card at your price becomes harder when say 80 to 90 percent of the people that want the card know what you paid for it. To think it isn't relevant is ridiculous. The entire concept of pricing is based on previous sales. Lack of previous sales allow for a truly free market on the card( meaning don't base your price based on what others paid for it, base it on what it is worth to you). Humans have this ridiculous need to draw assimilation to make sense of something. It is programmed right into our brains.

Multiple potential buyers seeing the sale price in a highly volatile and subjective makes selling it hard. My claim here is not really subjective and open to interpretation. IT DOES MAKE IT HARDER. I have done it, have you?

Do you sell cards or just buy them? How common are the ones you are selling. Mid century Topps PSA 3's and 4's are we talking rare, super hard to find niche market cards in top grade. Cards that basically only sell at auction? Cards that have a fear about what they may bring, hence your buyers may back out and wait for it to go to auction kind of cards?

Your entire premise of leaving the prices up are solely so you know how to price a card. When I am wanting to make a profit, I don't want you to use my pricing to price my card. This isn't a hard concept to understand.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

As a buyer for a card, that may potentially sell it at some point in the future, the last thing I want is someone using the sale price of the exact card I am selling(the price I paid for it) to be used as a negotiation tactic when trying to buy the card from me.

This. It's annoying enough when someone pulls a random sale price from somewhere in an attempt to justify their lowball offer. It's worse when they come in saying "I know you paid X for this, so you're just being greedy if you refuse my offer of X+$1.00." Just because I got something for a good price does not mean I'm obligated to sell it for that price, and I don't need anyone trying to throw a guilt trip on me for trying to turn a profit on something I picked up on the BST.

If you want to ask the seller to leave the price up when you buy something, that's fine, but it's excessive to insist all sellers should do so or that there's no excuse for deleting the price.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

This. It's annoying enough when someone pulls a random sale price from somewhere in an attempt to justify their lowball offer. It's worse when they come in saying "I know you paid X for this, so you're just being greedy if you refuse my offer of X+$1.00." Just because I got something for a good price does not mean I'm obligated to sell it for that price, and I don't need anyone trying to throw a guilt trip on me for trying to turn a profit on something I picked up on the BST.

If you want to ask the seller to leave the price up when you buy something, that's fine, but it's excessive to insist all sellers should do so or that there's no excuse for deleting the price.

So I'm curious.... You talk about not having to justify getting an item cheap, and that it doesn't mean you have to sell it at that price - which is fair...
But then you complain about someone making a "lowball offer"?
So you're saying you get items as cheap as you can, but the buyer shouldn't try as well?? With all due respect, and it's nothing personal..... A lot of dealers are delusional and quite hypocritical. You try and get items AS CHEAP AS YOU CAN as a dealer.... Why shouldn't buyers try and do the exact same thing?? ....think about it...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I've got some crazy ideas.

1. If you think prices should be left up, then when you sell , leave yours up.

2. If you are insulted by lowball offers, you probably should find another business. Really how taxing is it to say "no thanks?"

3. If a seller is asking a museum price for something and it gets you worked up, maybe you should consider another hobby. Really, how hard is it to NOT buy something?

4. If someone is doing business in a manner you don't approve, don't do business with them. Really. No, REALLY.

5. In any of the scenarios above, resorting to calling people out, sending angry PMs, actually insulting them, or otherwise disrupting the peace of the universe is ludicrous. I don't have time to get worked up over everything I disagree with ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO AFFECT ME!

Are these little pieces of cardboard (or leather or flannel or felt or silk etc...) really worth the level of aggravation some of you guys put yourselves through? If it's your hobby, isn't a hobby intended to be a relaxing enjoyable pastime? If it's your business, do you really become more successful the angrier you get? This is absolutely NOT directed at the OP, but rather at all the curmudgeons and hotheads in general who are always right.

I recently had a negotiation with a board member whose name I won't reveal without permission. We have done business before and I like him. In this latest negotiation he tried to "educate" me as to the value of my card. The two seconds it took to read the information were pretty painless so I merely responded with my absolute best price. It didn't work out. He didn't call me an asshole, I didn't call him a degenerate, and we'll probably do business again. I guess it's more fun to fly off the handle and act like there's some kind of moral high ground in a negotiation over a baseball card.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Let's try and bring the discussion back to the point. Don't be selfish and delete the prices. Keep em intact for the good of the community. Who cares if someone down the road sees what you paid for the card. Doesn't mean you have to let that figure into the negotiation when it's time to sell. And for those who just plain don't think it's their job to help educate their fellow hobbyists, well that's just selfish and not in the spirit of net54 BST

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Let's try and bring the discussion back to the point. Instead of being selfish because 1) you think you'll maximize your selling price if no one knows what you paid or 2) it's no one else's business what transacts on a public hobby forum, why not instead add to the common knowledge for the overall good of the hobby? If I know what things are selling for I might be your next buyer the next time you list that item.

Or maybe something changed in the market, and now you are going to use an outdated price to justify the price of the item for sale.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Or maybe something changed in the market, and now you are going to use an outdated price to justify the price of the item for sale.

market can always change but always good to have prior sold prices versus no info.... maybe the prior sold market may not matter for a certain deal but there are others it could matter...who knows

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've got some crazy ideas.

1. If you think prices should be left up, then when you sell , leave yours up.

2. If you are insulted by lowball offers, you probably should find another business. Really how taxing is it to say "no thanks?"

3. If a seller is asking a museum price for something and it gets you worked up, maybe you should consider another hobby. Really, how hard is it to NOT buy something?

4. If someone is doing business in a manner you don't approve, don't do business with them. Really. No, REALLY.

5. In any of the scenarios above, resorting to calling people out, sending angry PMs, actually insulting them, or otherwise disrupting the peace of the universe is ludicrous. I don't have time to get worked up over everything I disagree with ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO AFFECT ME!

Are these little pieces of cardboard (or leather or flannel or felt or silk etc...) really worth the level of aggravation some of you guys put yourselves through? If it's your hobby, isn't a hobby intended to be a relaxing enjoyable pastime? If it's your business, do you really become more successful the angrier you get? This is absolutely NOT directed at the OP, but rather at all the curmudgeons and hotheads in general who are always right.

I recently had a negotiation with a board member whose name I won't reveal without permission. We have done business before and I like him. In this latest negotiation he tried to "educate" me as to the value of my card. The two seconds it took to read the information were pretty painless so I merely responded with my absolute best price. It didn't work out. He didn't call me an asshole, I didn't call him a degenerate, and we'll probably do business again. I guess it's more fun to fly off the handle and act like there's some kind of moral high ground in a negotiation over a baseball card.

You're right!

[steve B]

I don't really see it as that big a deal.

I tend to leave mine up, mostly because of laziness. Most of my stuff is on the lower end though, so there isn't much worry about someone using the price as a bargaining tool. If my cheap card has sold for X and someone offers you X+$1 you're probably looking at a pretty good deal

Sometimes I'm mildly disappointed when I go to look at something and it's just listed as $sold, but only a little, as most of them are more than I can/will spend right now.

What I'd like to see is that "Sold" added to the title. That would actually be pretty useful whether the price was left up or not. (Not like I do that myself........yes, that's a thing I should work on. )

Steve B

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

So I'm curious.... You talk about not having to justify getting an item cheap, and that it doesn't mean you have to sell it at that price - which is fair...
But then you complain about someone making a "lowball offer"?
So you're saying you get items as cheap as you can, but the buyer shouldn't try as well?? With all due respect, and it's nothing personal..... A lot of dealers are delusional and quite hypocritical. You try and get items AS CHEAP AS YOU CAN as a dealer.... Why shouldn't buyers try and do the exact same thing?? ....think about it...

Me personally, I don't mind the lowball offer itself. As you say, there's nothing wrong with trying to get things as cheaply as possible. It's the tactics that some collectors employ to justify what they know is a lowball offer that I find annoying.

I don't need a dissertation of what fair market value should be, a quote of a single low selling price found somewhere that I should match, or a guilt trip as to why I have the audacity to increase the price on something when I go to re-sell it.

It's fine to make a low offer, but when I don't take it, or counter with something I deem more reasonable and a message of "Best I can do," a paragraph of text in a second lowball offer (or even a follow-up message that doesn't actually include an offer) isn't going to convince me to crawl down in the gutter on my price. I'm more likely to just block that bidder and move on at that point. The buyer may take offense at that, or insist that any tactic is fair game in the name of getting the best price possible, but I simply don't have time to be messing around with someone I have already determined to have unreasonable expectations.