Maybe the 52 Topps Highs did get dumped?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by steve B

I've always had mixed thoughts about this.

"Old" Inventory was often just shoved to the back of a warehouse back then. In fact it's a practice that continued well into the 80's and 90's although it had minimized by the early 80's. It was especially true for anything the warehouse guy thought might be saleable in some way.
Topps was also mostly in the business of selling new products, so they may not have cared much to have a look at the warehouse even if they were asked. (Or they knew 52 highs brought a premium and "couldn't find any" )

So the "dumped off a barge" didn't make a lot of sense.

But the story stayed pretty consistent over time, and 52 Highs are pretty hard to find compared to the lower series.

Since they weren't printing them themselves, I think it's possible they got a bunch in right about the time they realized sales weren't going to be what they'd hoped.
It's possible they didn't have the space to shift them to the back corner.
It also might be that what got dumped was sheets or bulk packed cards from the printer. Why wrap a product that won't sell? And storing sheets or boxes full of bulk cards might have been a nuisance.

In that view, dumping them makes sense. Having A million plus of something out there is a bit risky. Especially since trash haulers are fairly well known for keeping any really good "finds" - A long and for some well regarded tradition.

53s were hauled away? Maybe by then they realized that if they couldn't move their million+ leftovers almost nobody else could either?

I think it's possible something survived underwater. They were wax wrapped, and pressure might have caused them to seal ...........Well, I can dream anyway. (Possible but very unlikely) Barges tend to use the same spots, so there would be a whole lot of "stuff" to dig through even knowing the exact spot.

Steve B

Steven,

I thought the ink used on '52 high number cards was water soluble. If so there wouldn't be much left of the images even if the cardboard did survive. Hypothetically, might lead to some interesting ghost images on the backs of cards.....


Z

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Steven,

I thought the ink used on '52 high number cards was water soluble. If so there wouldn't be much left of the images even if the cardboard did survive. Hypothetically, might lead to some interesting ghost images on the backs of cards.....


Z

That is the first time I have heard of that. Are you saying all the series before that were printed using different, non-soluble ink?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by irv

That is the first time I have heard of that. Are you saying all the series before that were printed using different, non-soluble ink?

No I am not say ing that Irv. I was not sure of the answer.

Z

[glynparson]

The Hi#'s are certainly tougher than any other series today. They are not necessarily tougher in High Grade and are sometimes easier than some other numbers, but overall without regard for condition they are the toughest regular issue non error/variation topps baseball cards to find.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Steven,

I thought the ink used on '52 high number cards was water soluble. If so there wouldn't be much left of the images even if the cardboard did survive. Hypothetically, might lead to some interesting ghost images on the backs of cards.....


Z

If it was, then the series would have to have been printed by some other method than offset lithography. I only have one high number, but didn't see any indication that it was different in any way from a regular 52 Topps.

The process works by having plates that will absorb moisture from water treated so there are areas that repel water that the oil based ink can stick to. So water soluble ink wouldn't work well at all. The new vegetable oil based inks may be water soluble, but at the time they either didn't exist or would have been really unusual.

Steve B

[irv]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I am sure some of the older crowd remembers the 50s and 60s quite well. I can't fathom in any way why in a time that many homes had incinerators as commonly as ovens that a company would waste the time barging paper product out to sea for dumping.

I do not doubt that they could have been destroyed but I think the dumping story was another of Sy's tall tales because it sounded neat. If there was such a pile he could not move, incinerating would have cost near nothing at the time.

At the 8:00 minute mark the interviewer asks him about not trusting the incinerator. Imo, the interviewer, based on his tone, also finds this hard to digest but with the obvious edits throughout, who knows what is going on?

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

No I am not saying that Irv. I was not sure of the answer.

Z

Sorry, Zach, if it came across like that? I wasn't insinuating you were. I had just never heard that before and was wondering if you heard something different about the first few series?

[Zach Wheat]

Irv, sorry was travelling. I hate it when work gets in the way of fun. I am not stating the series were printed the same. My experience comes from a 19512 Topps high number card that I smudged the ink and then I realized the card had gotten a drop of water spilled on it.

I will see if I can find the card and scan it.....

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Irv, sorry was travelling. I hate it when work gets in the way of fun. I am not stating the series were printed the same. My experience comes from a 19512 Topps high number card that I smudged the ink and then I realized the card had gotten a drop of water spilled on it.

I will see if I can find the card and scan it.....

That is weird, are you sure it is not a home made inkjet printer card? They will do that.

[toppcat]

My latest post is up on this subject (and Topps Vennies in general): http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...-dimaggio.html

[irv]

Originally Posted by toppcat

My latest post is up on this subject (and Topps Vennies in general): http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...-dimaggio.html

Good read, Dave!

Thanks for posting.

If you have time, and don't mind, I'd love to see the scans of your card that received the water droplet.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by toppcat

My latest post is up on this subject (and Topps Vennies in general): http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...-dimaggio.html

Good article.....if CCC did not get their re-supply of 52 His directly from Topps in the 1960 warehouse cleanout, where did they get their 1960 influx from? Also, where did Alan Rosen's 86 find come from....could that case(s) of 52s Hi#s come out of Topps warehouse post 1952?

Finally, could Sy's ocean dump story just be a cover, as he likely sold these 52s to CCC and did not want to promote such a large influx of these cards into the market(even in 1960) and destroy their demand?