52 Mantle Vs T206 Cobb

[sterlingfox]

+1

My thoughts exactly. Once the baby boomers pass and the Mantle hype subsides, the valuation on the 52T will soon follow suit.

The much harder to find pre-war cards will, on the other hand, continue to rise.

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Mantle is in the wheelhouse of the Baby Boomers. They saw him, they were in awe of him, they have the Mantle hype near their whole life. What might happen as the baby boomers pass? Then we are left with collectors who aren't in so close touch with Mantle. He will always be top tier icon/player, but might his "pull" subside? I, for instance, agree Mantle is Big Time. But for my budget, I feel he is overvalued and thus have not put money into his cards. I would rather put my money elsewhere (T206 HOF'ers and the like). Will more people feel the way I do as more time passes? The hype of the crowd frenzy and keep up with the Jones' mentality could continue strong as ever...or not?

[packs]

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

I'd buy the nicest SGC/PSA 2 Mantle I could find and then spend the rest on the nicest Green Cobb I could find (SGC/PSA 3-4). That's if it had to be between just those two cards

[sterlingfox]

Originally Posted by packs

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

There are about 10x as many 52T Mantles PSA graded 3 vs PSA 6 Green Cobbs.

[packs]

Doesn't it say something about the strength of the cards when one is worth the same as the other in twice the grade?

[PhillipAbbott79]

If the supply and demand ratios are different they could appreciate at different rates. Currently the Cobb is undergoing a ridiculous boom. That doesn't mean in 10 years it will be worth what its max appreciation was along the way. As mentioned in the poll, which is going to be worth at that point in time and why do you think that.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

On ebay there are currently 34 52 Topps Mantles and 8 T206 green Cobbs (only counted graded copies to assure legitimacy).

Between just those two cards I would take the Cobb. As mentioned Mantle (more specifically the 52 Topps Mantle) is over-hyped by good publicity. Three points were used in this publicity that are all myths.
1) He was the best player - Mays can be argued to be better, even if you don't agree the fact that the argument can be made shows they are at least comparable
2) It is his rookie - It isn't. That would be 1951 Bowman. Even if you argue it is his "Topps Rookie" then explain why the 1958 Topps Musial isn't described as such? Even though he too would be considered a better player by people.
3) It is a high number in a popular set - It is a high number, but there is evidence that it was double printed which reverses the "high number" scarcity concept.

At the end of the day it is TOPPS first iconic card. Since they are still in business and the only authorized distributor of Topps cards they keep pushing this card through reprints and other advertising. If MLB does what NBA and NFL did and ever change to Panini (Topps contract is up in 2020) it is possible they will lose this persuasive stature.

Since Cobb should all ready be smoothed out on prices his cards will continue at the same pace all other cards will within the t206 set. I believe it is the safer buy. If you are the riskier buyer Mantle could have the more upside, but you don't want to be the one left holding the bag in the end.

[mickey7mantle7]

Does a vote count towards my post count?

[packs]

I see some people's point on the Mantle as it relates to boomers but I don't see how an even older card of an even older player would surpass a more recent one, if boomer die off is what you're saying will drop the Mantle card's price.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

I see some people's point on the Mantle as it relates to boomers but I don't see how an even older card of an even older player would surpass a more recent one, if boomer die off is what you're saying will drop the Mantle card's price.

It is that there isn't anyone elevating Cobb's prices based on nostalgia, so his prices will be determined by other things (ie interest in t206). If Mantle's prices are elevated by nostalgia then when that dissipates the prices will adjust.

[packs]

That makes sense. Well I hope everyone is right about the Cobb because I don't have the Mantle.

[Huysmans]

With respect to a few of the past posters, the only individual that truly transcends baseball as a freestanding American institution is Ruth, and the only card that fits that bill is the Wagner. I've had the "importance of baseball cards" discussion with a number of antique dealers over the years including individuals that specialize in Americana and I can honestly say neither Mantle nor his 52 Topps card has ever been brought up. The stature of Ruth, and of the T206 Wagner.....yes, but Mantle? No, never.

As others have postulated, once the gap is generated between Mantle and his contemporary living collectors in the years to come, the rarity and much smaller available supply of green Cobbs will dominate in both desirability and value.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

With respect to a few of the past posters, the only individual that truly transcends baseball as a freestanding American institution is Ruth, and the only card that fits that bill is the Wagner. I've had the "importance of baseball cards" discussion with a number of antique dealers over the years including individuals that specialize in Americana and I can honestly say neither Mantle nor his 52 Topps card has ever been brought up. The stature of Ruth, and of the T206 Wagner.....yes, but Mantle? No, never.

As others have postulated, once the gap is generated between Mantle and his contemporary living collectors in the years to come, the rarity and much smaller available supply of green Cobbs will dominate in both desirability and value.

completely agree - if im spending 20k or 1k its on a ruth card

[oldjudge]

The Mantle is an overhyped card of an overvalued player. I grew up in the Bronx in the 1950-60s (an avid Yankee fan) and saw Mantle play in person a lot. If you had asked 50 Yankee fans during this time who the greatest Yankee center fielder of all time was, 49 would have said DiMaggio. Mantle struck out too much. Even with the Yankee line-up he rarely knocked in 100 runs in a season, and was replaced for defensive purposes in late innings. Bottom line, if these are my two choices I go with the Cobb every time.

[KendallCat]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The Mantle is an overhyped card of an overvalued player. I grew up in the Bronx in the 1950-60s (an avid Yankee fan) and saw Mantle play in person a lot. If you had asked 50 Yankee fans during this time who the greatest Yankee center fielder of all time was, 49 would have said DiMaggio. Mantle struck out too much. Even with the Yankee line-up he rarely knocked in 100 runs in a season, and was replaced for defensive purposes in late innings. Bottom line, if these are my two choices I go with the Cobb every time.

Could not disagree more and the hobby and collectors disagree with you as well. Curious as to why you say he was an overhyped player? Joe Namath was an overhyped player for sure. Terry Bradshaw numbers wise as well. What people look at along with stats is wining and doing it on the greatest and largest stage there is - Super Bowl, World Series, Olympics...

Numbers wise Marino smokes about every QB of all time, but when the GOAT conversation comes up the first name you hear is Joe Montana. Why? 4-4 in the Super Bowl.

Not sure why the hate for Mantle but when you win 7 WS titles in 18 seasons and hold WS records for HR's, RBI's, hits, total bases, runs... I think you are doing ok. Biggest stage he was the best. Some are going to argue "well he played in the most WS so of course he has the records." Ruth had 50% more WS at bats yet he does not hold those records.

"Mantle did not have a lot of RBI's." His RBI total of 1500+ is decent, but you have to look at why this was the case. His number of walks was huge as well as his number of runs scored. He led the league in walks and runs scored 5 times as well as OBP 3 times. He also had seasons where he hit 37 and 40 HR's but under 100 RBI's - that means players were not on base when he got up.

One thing that many are not aware of was he was the fastest player in the game despite injuring his knee as a rookie in the WS, and most who saw him play knew how much it took away from his power and speed. Despite playing his entire career with multiple injuries he put up huge numbers. Back then when you injured your ACL there were no surgeries- you played through it. Not to mention nobody could hit a ball back then or now as far as he could and he was only 5'11 and 190 lbs.

"Once the baby boomers die off nobody will want his cards." Just like people collect Ruth and Cobb and Gehrig and never saw them play they still collect them and always will. Paintings 300-400 years old still outsell modern artists by millions and for good reason. "If" the Mantle cards die off the hobby will as well. Without him the hobby would not be near the worth it is today. Mantle still is the highest priced card in every set most years except for a key rookie or two. What does that tell you?

Overhyped and overrated? One can have different opinions, but don't let ones not liking a player turn into baseball history ignorance. People love winners and very few did it better than the Mick.

[Bicem]

Cobb... less overrated card of the two in my opinion.

[donniebaseball]

This is an interesting discussion presented by the OP. We are obviously talking about two heavy hitters in the hobby and for most it will come down to what they like to collect. Scarcity is an important factor when breaking ties.

Here is what the POP report looks like:

#311
2.5 - 48
3 - 167

Green Cobb
5.5 - 3
6 - 17

I would argue that looking strictly at these POP numbers doesn't tell the whole story with the 52T Mantle. How many examples from the 215 Mantles graded here are perfectly centered with a great color/registration combo? My guess would be not many. If we could quantify this the scarcity conversation may change a bit.

To answer the OP's question I would prefer the 52T Mantle. This card fits within what I like to collect and I think it will hold its value well into the future. However, I understand the other side of the argument. Splitting hairs between two cards that shape our hobby.

[Joshchisox08]

Cobbie but my vote is biased. Cobb is my favorite player of all time. The set is my favorite set of all time. And that particular card is one that I "may" own one day........................

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by donniebaseball

I would argue that looking strictly at these POP numbers doesn't tell the whole story with the 52T Mantle. How many examples from the 215 Mantles graded here are perfectly centered with a great color/registration combo? My guess would be not many. If we could quantify this the scarcity conversation may change a bit.

This is also very true for the green Cobb as well. VERY difficult to find nicely centered with nice coloring and registration in ANY grade.

I voted Cobb, however, I would LOVE to own a '52 Mantle. I think both will do well over time.

[Enfuego]

I would think the Mantle 52T would be more sought after Because of the consistent trend of "Main Eventing" in various Auctions. Sure, Cobb is definitely a household name too, but a lot of baseball fans tend to think of names like Ruth, Mays, Mantle, Gehrig, etc.

[mark evans]

It all seems to me to be a crapshoot. I don't see how anyone can predict future value of any card with any confidence. I think there is at least some chance that the vintage card hobby will take a hit as baby boomers become replaced by kids who grew up on video games. And, not to be cynical, there is always the possibility that general economic conditions will cause a reduction in disposable income as we come to terms with the national debt or for other reasons.

If you enjoy collecting, just buy what you like and can afford.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

+1

My thoughts exactly. Once the baby boomers pass and the Mantle hype subsides, the valuation on the 52T will soon follow suit.

The much harder to find pre-war cards will, on the other hand, continue to rise.

Amd thats when I will scoop them all up MUAHAUHA

neck and neck right now

Id buy the cobb