Maybe the 52 Topps Highs did get dumped?

[irv]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I'll have to watch that later but I still think it's BS. They never did that with any other inventory and it would be more expensive to hire a scow than carter or just burning it. Don't forget excess 53s were carted and in addition ard Collectors Co was around by the time they would have been dumped.

I'll never allude to knowing as much as you do, Toppcat, but this is right from the horse's mouth.

I assume it is a possibility that someone wanted to fabricate a story like this back in the day, but I find it hard to believe Sy would go along with that?

Like I mentioned in that other thread, I originally believed they were dumped as I had nothing else to go on nor to believe, but when someone had close proximity/access to them, as was mentioned in that other thread, it sure makes it hard to believe these weren't dumped until the 60's?

[toppcat]

Irv, sorry that may have come off as vitriolic which was not my intention. Sy got a lot of stuff wrong over the years, such as as the "taffy" going bad with the 51's, which I'm pretty sure was just PR spin to avoid saying they got shut down by Bowman. Why he continued to weave such tales well beyond the need to do so is beyond me. Most of the hobby lore surrounding the pre-1981 era of Topps is fabricated or hopelessly incorrect.

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe Sy had a little of what Brian Williams has. Or like Roger C said of Andy Pettite, he just misremembered

I am surprised no seller has yet tried to sell a beat to hell 52 Mantle reprint as having been recovered from the ocean floor

[7nohitter]

I've often wondered if there are any remnants on the ocean floor. Extreme long shot I would guess.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

I've often wondered if there are any remnants on the ocean floor. Extreme long shot I would guess.

Since it took decades to find the Titanic, I'm guessing the odds of finding intact or remnants of cases of baseball cards would be infinitely smaller.

In addition, the number of people collecting Titanic memorabilia may even exceed the number of people collecting '52 Topps baseball. Given that, more effort would be made in looking for the Titanic... and it took years.

[Exhibitman]

Berger had been telling the garbage scow story since the 1970s. At least. I tend to believe a consistent eyewitness report over inductive reasoning.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Berger had been telling the garbage scow story since the 1970s. At least. I tend to believe a consistent eyewitness report over inductive reasoning.

Depends if Sy was actually there LOL

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Berger had been telling the garbage scow story since the 1970s. At least. I tend to believe a consistent eyewitness report over inductive reasoning.

Agree with Adam. Even in the early articles he has been consistent with this story.

Z

[Volod]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

I've often wondered if there are any remnants on the ocean floor. Extreme long shot I would guess.

Sounds like a project that could be pitched to the History Channel...somebody get me John Chatterton's cell...

[Shoebox]

There was a movie I saw that involved trying to prove if the urban legend about a mass landfill dump of thousands of copies of the ET Atari game had actually taken place. It was inconclusive, but the general sense was that it was likely a fiction.

[toppcat]

If anything was dumped, it's long disintegrated.

[campyfan39]

You need to check out netflix "Atari: Game Over".
They DID find a massive trove of ET and other Atari cartridges in that landfill.

Originally Posted by Shoebox

There was a movie I saw that involved trying to prove if the urban legend about a mass landfill dump of thousands of copies of the ET Atari game had actually taken place. It was inconclusive, but the general sense was that it was likely a fiction.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Volod

Sounds like a project that could be pitched to the History Channel...somebody get me John Chatterton's cell...

It would probably end up like Geraldo Rivera and Capones safe...

Hosted by TV personality Geraldo Rivera, the special centered on the opening of a secret vault in the Lexington Hotel once owned by noted crime lord Al Capone, which turned out to be empty except for debris.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

It would probably end up like Geraldo Rivera and Capones safe...

Hosted by TV personality Geraldo Rivera, the special centered on the opening of a secret vault in the Lexington Hotel once owned by noted crime lord Al Capone, which turned out to be empty except for debris.

I remember the hype around that. Unbelievable!

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Irv, sorry that may have come off as vitriolic which was not my intention.

Its hard not to when you are the first person, everytime, to say the prices on highs were a marketing ploy from day one, and they aren't scarce. The whole community, if not 95% of those working on the set, would wholeheartedly disagree. Opinions are fine to have, but this isnt rhe first time you've jumped at the chance to discredit the story and scarcity of the high numbers.

[ALR-bishop]

I am of the opinion the 52 gray back Reisner is not scarce

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I am of the opinion the 52 gray back Reisner is not scarce

But, it is probably more scarce than the 52 gray back Reiser.

[irv]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Irv, sorry that may have come off as vitriolic which was not my intention. Sy got a lot of stuff wrong over the years, such as as the "taffy" going bad with the 51's, which I'm pretty sure was just PR spin to avoid saying they got shut down by Bowman. Why he continued to weave such tales well beyond the need to do so is beyond me. Most of the hobby lore surrounding the pre-1981 era of Topps is fabricated or hopelessly incorrect.

I wasn't thinking that, Toppcat, and sorry if you thought my reply was alluding to that.

I know very little about all the stories over the years and in my quest to learn more, I have found it a daunting task as so many stories exist that seem to dispel the previous ones.

Watching this video, and the fact it is from Sy Berger, I immediately assumed it was correct and truthful, but reading your reply, and others, I have learned, once again, never to assume anything.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Its hard not to when you are the first person, everytime, to say the prices on highs were a marketing ploy from day one, and they aren't scarce. The whole community, if not 95% of those working on the set, would wholeheartedly disagree. Opinions are fine to have, but this isnt rhe first time you've jumped at the chance to discredit the story and scarcity of the high numbers.

Yeah, so?

[Cliff Bowman]

As far as being scarce, 1952 Topps high numbers are plentiful as being compared to many regional issues and Topps test issues. I agree that there is a huge demand for them which explains the high prices, but if someone has the money they could easily purchase every card from 311 to 407 in at least PSA 6, many of them in PSA 7 and PSA 8, on eBay today. I counted thirty cards of 1952 Topps Pee Wee Reese available on eBay right now. In comparison, the stuff I am looking for is never available, and when it does pop up once every five years it is scooped up by a whale.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

As far as being scarce, 1952 Topps high numbers are plentiful as being compared to many regional issues and Topps test issues. I agree that there is a huge demand for them which explains the high prices, but if someone has the money they could easily purchase every card from 311 to 407 in at least PSA 6, many of them in PSA 7 and PSA 8, on eBay today. I counted thirty cards of 1952 Topps Pee Wee Reese available on eBay right now. In comparison, the stuff I am looking for is never available, and when it does pop up once every five years it is scooped up by a whale.

Cliff I agree the 52 hi #s are plentiful in comparison to many other of the lower pop issues you mention. As I have been building this set in PSA 5 or better and am about 80% complete, I have noticed that with many of the highs (and even cards from all series of this set), there are a decent selection available on ebay. However, the reason I find that so many are available are the fixed prices are significantly higher than what the market brings on a similar graded card via auction. For example a centered PSA 4 Reese sold for $566, the least expensive PSA 4 copy available via fixed price is priced at $699.

IMO, there would be far fewer fixed price offerings of these 52 Highs if the listed prices were much more in line with auction results. In other words, the supply is only high because these fixed prices are higher than what the market will bring on these cards. I probably would have finished my set long ago if the fixed price listings were even remotely close to auction prices as I have built my set to this point either via auction wins or by waiting for fixed priced listings to show up at auction type prices.


As far as overall availability, the Reese card has 558 copies graded by PSA (less any resubmits), while most other SP 52 highs have between 400-500 copies graded by PSA.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Irv, sorry that may have come off as vitriolic which was not my intention. Sy got a lot of stuff wrong over the years, such as as the "taffy" going bad with the 51's, which I'm pretty sure was just PR spin to avoid saying they got shut down by Bowman. Why he continued to weave such tales well beyond the need to do so is beyond me. Most of the hobby lore surrounding the pre-1981 era of Topps is fabricated or hopelessly incorrect.

I'm siding with you, Dave. As someone who is ancient enough to have eaten that "taffy" back in '51, I can testify that it was so hard and impervious to teeth and saliva, it would probably be "edible" - that is, non-rancid - today. Sy's story telling could be an indication that he was prone to fudging (npi) or dramatizing stuff for the amusing effect it might have on listeners. Maybe that was his simple motive.