Hey, pennant guys

[Fballguy]

Wondering if anyone has any information on this Steelers pennant? It's not particularly rare but it's curious to me because it has "Championship - American Conference" on it. The graphic is an old style and Egner's book places it in the 1950's. The Steelers were in the NFL's old American Conference from 1950-52 but never played in even a playoff game during this time. Conference's didnt have championship games back then anyway. They were just called playoffs with the championship pitting the winner from the respective conferences.

Of course, the Steelers played in many American Conference Championship games in the 70's but this pennant obviously isn't from that time period.

[IMG][/IMG]

[thetahat]

I am certain that this is a 70s pennant, that the book is incorrect, despite the early-looking graphic. The Ad Flag company made this, they produced baseball and football pennants through the end of the decade, often using designs from an earlier time. Still very cool!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I am certain that this is a 70s pennant, that the book is incorrect, despite the early-looking graphic. The Ad Flag company made this, they produced baseball and football pennants through the end of the decade, often using designs from an earlier time. Still very cool!

Thanks for the reply. I suspected that as well. It's been a while since I pulled this pennant out so I may be mistaken...but I thought it was made of the soft felt used pre 1960's. This..along with the graphic...were the reasons I thought it may be from the 50's. But you're right...being from the 70's makes a lot more sense considering the wording. I'll dig it out this weekend and have a closer look.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I agree its from the 70's. Some people I know found a large group of them and were selling them at shows. It was the first time I had seen this particular style, but they are original. They had some others too, probably old vendor stock. Great looking pennant and not easy to find, but not an early pennant.

[lefty147]

It is from 1972. Definitely an error in the book. Judging by the graphics it certainly looks 40's/50's but it is made of the stiffer felt. I couldn't pinpoint the year down until much later when I acquired the "set" from someone who said he got them at the game. It is the only time I have seen the Dolphins one and it seems to be quite rare. Mike

[ooo-ribay]

Nice porpoise on the dolphins pennant.

[Duluth Eskimo]

That is a rare Dolphins version. I have not seen that one either. Most likely bought on the street rather than at the game, but I get what you mean

[Fballguy]

Porpoise? I think that's a Mahi Mahi. Always wondered why they chose that graphic instead of the traditional "dolphin". But, I love that pennant. I have a couple of the original version sans AFC Championship reference. Never saw this version but would love to find one.

For Mike...I really enjoy your book. Was looking for a long time for a pennant price guide and was happy to find yours. I think the football portion could be enhanced and I don't necessarily agree with the the value/rarity designations in some cases...but I get how this would be an evolving encyclopedia, particularly for football as I'm guessing there are fewer collectors thus fewer pennants floating around. I've learned it's very hard to research pennants, especially the older ones...at least for the average collector. I also believe this book is the first of it's kind and should be built upon over time. If you ever decide to do a 3rd edition, please let me know. I have quite a few football pennants not in your book.

I mean this as a compliment...I keep your book on the back of my toilet and I reference it once a day...at least (Haha). Seriously...I'm always flipping through it. I also carry it around with me in my back pack whenever I'm away from home as I'm always looking for pennants and want your book handy.

Anyway...Thanks!

Rob

[Showdawg]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Wondering if anyone has any information on this Steelers pennant? It's not particularly rare but it's curious to me because it has "Championship - American Conference" on it. The graphic is an old style and Egner's book places it in the 1950's. The Steelers were in the NFL's old American Conference from 1950-52 but never played in even a playoff game during this time. Conference's didnt have championship games back then anyway. They were just called playoffs with the championship pitting the winner from the respective conferences.

Of course, the Steelers played in many American Conference Championship games in the 70's but this pennant obviously isn't from that time period.

[IMG][/IMG]

Same thing happened with Browns pennant....My guess is they weren't prepared for playoffs/championship, so they grabbed some old stock pennants and printed them up with the championship lettering

This is an old Browns pennant from the 40s.....


When the Browns won championship in 1964, that pennant reappeared as a 1964 Championship pennant


I think the same thing happened with your pennant

[thetahat]

Remember the old ads in TV Guide that asked you to sketch and submit a cartoon drawing? The "winner" would get discounted art lessons or something. Well I think that's how the Ad Flag Pennant Company hired their artists. I have some Ad Flags in my collection and they are universally just ugly-a** pennants. Look at this Brooklyn Dodgers pennant. I have to have it, I am a collector and it is Brooklyn after all. But the guy looks less like a bum and more like a sex offender. And why the huge claw-like hand? This Phillies "quaker" pennant started giving me the creeps so I took it down, I might have to bury it in the backyard before it gives me bad dreams. And what is he stepping on ... is that a base or a box of Tastykakes?

On top of the bad art, they were often poorly cut (crooked, as with scissors) and the old-style designs have confused many collectors, as evident by this discussion ... I'm guessing these weren't sold in the ballparks but instead in the parking lots or back alleys.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Remember the old ads in TV Guide that asked you to sketch and submit a cartoon drawing? The "winner" would get discounted art lessons or something. Well I think that's how the Ad Flag Pennant Company hired their artists. I have some Ad Flags in my collection and they are universally just ugly-a** pennants. Look at this Brooklyn Dodgers pennant. I have to have it, I am a collector and it is Brooklyn after all. But the guy looks less like a bum and more like a sex offender. And why the huge claw-like hand? This Phillies "quaker" pennant started giving me the creeps so I took it down, I might have to bury it in the backyard before it gives me bad dreams. And what is he stepping on ... is that a base or a box of Tastykakes?

On top of the bad art, they were often poorly cut (crooked, as with scissors) and the old-style designs have confused many collectors, as evident by this discussion ... I'm guessing these weren't sold in the ballparks but instead in the parking lots or back alleys.

Here's one that defies logic. It is unquestionably vintage and "of the era"...

The font saying "Brooklyn" and "Dodgers" is identical to Ad Flag's "Sex Offender" Bum. Same for the font saying "Da Bums". But instead of showing the creepy sex offender mascot, it has a magnificent depiction of the Willard Mullin Bum inside of Ebbets Field.

I always considered these Stadium versions to be of a higher caliber, in terms of their graphics and quality. So how could this "hybrid" pennant even exist?

[thetahat]

Mark: great Ebbets pennant, I saw it on eBay. Surely one that isn't one of their typical uglies. That's the only AdFlag I've seen depicting a ballpark. They must have been making them for a long time, they have made A's and Browns, and have soft felt. And a few of them like your Pirates are in color. But they kept the same designs for many years, I have that same Pirates in gold and it is stiff like a 70s pennant. The Phillies Quaker pennant also comes in light blue stuff felt.

Here's another AdFlag Brooklyn version.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Remember the old ads in TV Guide that asked you to sketch and submit a cartoon drawing? The "winner" would get discounted art lessons or something. Well I think that's how the Ad Flag Pennant Company hired their artists. I have some Ad Flags in my collection and they are universally just ugly-a** pennants.

You want ugly? I got your ugly, right here. This "artist" was rejected by Ad Flag.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

You want ugly? I got your ugly, right here. This "artist" was rejected by Ad Flag.

Great pennants! I have the top one, neat to see it dated by the ticket. And yeah, why is he wearing just shorts and socks?

These might be early Ad Flags though I wouldn't wager it. Pennants like the top one have in common: felt (not cloth), single stitching at wide end, thick strip, and the tassels are thin and made of the same felt. Usually just one color print but some have multi color graphic that looks almost spray painted like my sex offender Dodger pennant. The STL "angry brownie" pennant is of this mold.

[perezfan]

Well, I guess that after 843 posts and 105,000 views, this has morphed into an "Ugly Pennant Thread"...

That Giants Pennant is pretty horrendous, and looks like it was drawn by a semi-talented 3rd grader. His chest looks like it's made of ocean water, and why are there Xs on his socks?

Here's another example of an artist that may have failed to make the cut with AdFlag. This is my nomination for worst vintage pennant/dumbest logo (but still better than the modern junk made today...)

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well, I guess that after 843 posts and 105,000 views, this has morphed into an "Ugly Pennant Thread"...

That Giants Pennant is pretty horrendous, and looks like it was drawn by a semi-talented 3rd grader. His chest looks like it's made of ocean water, and why are there Xs on his socks?

Here's another example of an artist that may have failed to make the cut with AdFlag. This is my nomination for worst vintage pennant/dumbest logo (but still better than the modern junk made today...)

Yes that is an awful logo. What hitter looks like that in his follow thru? (Of course the bigger question is what hitter has the letter A as his torso.) They replaced the cool elephant logo on the KC stadium pennants with this.

Now time for the ugliest of the uglies, pretty sure this one is a very early AdFlag ....

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Wondering if anyone has any information on this Steelers pennant? It's not particularly rare but it's curious to me because it has "Championship - American Conference" on it. The graphic is an old style and Egner's book places it in the 1950's. The Steelers were in the NFL's old American Conference from 1950-52 but never played in even a playoff game during this time. Conference's didnt have championship games back then anyway. They were just called playoffs with the championship pitting the winner from the respective conferences.

Of course, the Steelers played in many American Conference Championship games in the 70's but this pennant obviously isn't from that time period.

[IMG][/IMG]

After I posted this, I noticed it was mentioned already, but anyway,..

This is a pennant from the 1972 playoff game against the Dolphins.
I own both pennants; the Dolphin one is much rarer to find but has the same printing. Evidently the AdFlag company (out of Chicago at the time, now long extinct) made these with less attention to historical accruacy than to dramatic effects. Such were the times. The crackdown by the NFL and MLB on 'bootlegs' like these was making their days more and more numbered.

I would love to find any historical documentation on the AdFlag company. Anyone who has links to it from the internet, please share, anytime -

[Fballguy]

Thanks all for the responses. Great point regarding the $0.40 per pennant shipping cost.

Agreed...whatever I'd save in shipping cost would be eaten and then some buy the cost of the foam core. Guess I'll just stick to my current method of saving and re-using the cardboard from previously rec'd pennants.

But that just means I'll have to buy more pennants for my collection so I don't run out of shipping supplies.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Thanks all for the responses. Great point regarding the $0.40 per pennant shipping cost.

Agreed...whatever I'd save in shipping cost would be eaten and then some buy the cost of the foam core. Guess I'll just stick to my current method of saving and re-using the cardboard from previously rec'd pennants.

But that just means I'll have to buy more pennants for my collection so I don't run out of shipping supplies.

Hey, that's my method too!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

i would love to find any historical documentation on the adflag company. Anyone who has links to it from the internet, please share, anytime -

+1

[Fballguy]

As I mentioned...Earlier this week I picked up 150 pennants via 15 auctions from the same seller. They sent the invoice and I paid. All seemed well. Then last night I received a message from the seller stating that due to an Ebay glitch, one of the auctions was listed twice, both ending at the same time...and of course...there were two different winners. Thus, they were refunding my payment for that lot. They provided the item number for the second listing so I checked it out and discovered I had the higher bid...and both auctions did end at the same time. So why would they give the lot to the under bidder? I've asked this question of them and so far no response. I also asked why they didn't refund some of the shipping cost (just because I was annoyed)...since they are sending me 11 fewer pennants.

This piqued my curiosity again so I started playing around with the shipping to get an idea of what the real cost would be. I assumed 30 pounds...which is probably way more than 150 pennants weighs...and 30x15x12 packaging...and via priority mail the cost would be $52. They charged me $58...close enough...however, they didn't ship priority. They shipped USPS Parcel Select, which from my googling is much cheaper...though I couldn't find pricing for it.

Anyway...Attached is the lot I'm not getting and I'm wondering what the value is on the New York Giants pennant? They're the most interesting pennants in this lot. My annoyance has started to subside, but the answer to this question may cause a relapse.

By the way...My winning bid was $26.

End of rant...

[ooo-ribay]

Hey Rob-

1) the whole double listing thing sounds a little fishy.

2) I think those two New York Giants pennent were the only pennants in that lot with a value of any more than maybe 5 bucks apiece. If the Giants pennants are real, they are Keezer pennants and very nice. I think they date to the 1950's (not earlier) and there are mini versions of the same. Getting two of them for $26 would have been a big time steal.

[ooo-ribay]

Easily $50 ea. pennants, IMO. Maybe/probably more.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Those Giants are reprint pennants worth about $5

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Those Giants are reprint pennants worth about $5

Yeah, looking at those again, they seem a little off.

I hope mine is not a reprint. I'm led to believe the SF is also a Keezer, based on the discussion that started on page 63 of this thread...

[Duluth Eskimo]

Also, despite what I mentioned earlier regarding being ok with $58, I think UPS parcel post would be much cheaper. I just made the comment because it was 150 pennants and figured you were working off of higher dollar amount pennants. I think given everything you have described, I would be a little salty too.