Selig and Schuerholz Elected to HOF

[clydepepper]

I am honest enough to say that I, like everyone I talked to back then, thoroughly enjoyed the homerun chase of 1998.

McGwire and Sosa were both easy to like and to cheer for.

It would have been easy enough to see the red flags, but we did not.

If Bud Selig got 'filthy rich' while 'overseeing' the steroid era...so did
EVERYONE else in MLB...even the pitchers serving them up.

The owners (for whom the commissioner works) all kept quiet while they raked in the big bucks, content with what was goin on.

It's very easy to have 20-20 hind-sight and I'm the first to admit that I
was pulled in by those who turned out to be cheaters.

These days, the two things that I hate the most about those times are
that McGwire lied to Mrs. Maris's face and Barry Bonds 'passed' the great
Hank Aaron...and, in doing so, he, along with all the other 'roiders' have
forever changed the way I look at the all-time HR list and even how often
I even check it.

I have greater appreciation for Griffey and Thome because I firmly believe that their totals were achieved without 'help'.

One thing I will not do is say that I did not enjoy all the homeruns at the
time they were being hit.

You guys need to get off your high horse and 'fess up.



hcry

[pclpads]

If Bud Light is in, there is hope for Gen. Eckert.

[glynparson]

I'd put Bonds and Clemens in without hesitation. The sanctimony is laughable. The hall isn't filled with saints and honest men. Plenty of tubes and liars. Put them in for what they did on the field. If all it took was popping a pill to be great please explain Jeremy Giambi and Ozzie canseco.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I'd put Bonds and Clemens in without hesitation. The sanctimony is laughable. The hall isn't filled with saints and honest men. Plenty of tubes and liars. Put them in for what they did on the field. If all it took was popping a pill to be great please explain Jeremy Giambi and Ozzie canseco.

Then Joe Jackson needs to go in. My philosophy is if you are going to put in cheaters, you start with him. Then after another 50 years, you can put in Rose. Then after another 20 years, you can put in Bonds and Clemens.

The HOF standard was set with a guy who it was never proven that he actually cheated, but knew about those cheating. So, if you are keeping him out of the HOF for 80 years running, those actual cheaters should be held out at least that long. My opinion is that integrity should matter and all known steroid cheaters should be permanently banned from the HOF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And the difference between steroids and the amphetamines that were prevalent in the 60s is.....

[KMayUSA6060]

I really struggle with Selig getting in before Shoeless Joe and Rose.

We're talking about a commissioner that oversaw a strike in 1994 that severely damaged the popularity of baseball, turning the reigns over to football as the most popular sport. Then (and this is just my opinion) he allowed the cheating with roids to try and gain some of that popularity back, all the while lining his pockets with cash.

[jhs5120]

Selig undersaw the largest expansion in MLB history, the longest labor peace in the history of all American sports, he also helped open up Japanese players to the MLB and was able to be our scapegoat for the whole steroid thing. He deserves it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And the difference between steroids and the amphetamines that were prevalent in the 60s is.....

I've always thought of it in terms of what the team gave players through its training and medical staffs versus what the players illegally acquired. To me the better analogy is the cocaine scandals of the late 1970s.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And the difference between steroids and the amphetamines that were prevalent in the 60s is.....

I would say the crazy excuses people make for their heroes to took amphetamines(+steroids IMHO) back in the 60's and 70's. I had one guy tell me that taking amphetamines was like drinking a cup of coffee.

Steroids have been around for more than 100 years and have been in sports for just as long.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say the crazy excuses people make for their heroes to took amphetamines(+steroids IMHO) back in the 60's and 70's. I had one guy tell me that taking amphetamines was like drinking a cup of coffee.

Steroids have been around for more than 100 years and have been in sports for just as long.

Amphetamine. is stronger than coffee. About twice as strong as Ritalin, which was basically like 8 cups of coffee at a low dose. Neither would help my hitting much, sadly something I can prove at a the local batting cage. (Doesn't help with running or throwing either, I'm still really slow.)

It's not clear how common steroids were in sports before about the 70's And I think they weren't common in baseball then. Bodybuilding/wrestling/weightlifting yes.

Amphetamines were big in cycling postwar as well as a bunch of other stuff. Pre-war there was a lot of misguided stuff going on. Cigarettes were considered performance enhancing as the "opened up the lungs" And earlier they'd take stuff like low doses of strychnine.

Things were more relaxed early on. In the 1930 Tour de France rule book riders were reminded that "drugs will not be provided by the organizers"

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And the difference between steroids and the amphetamines that were prevalent in the 60s is.....

You can buy steroids (Sort of, but they'll still get you banned in most sports) From GNC. Amphetamines? probably not.

Steve B

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

You can buy steroids (Sort of, but they'll still get you banned in most sports) From GNC. Amphetamines? probably not.

Steve B

If you are comparing the the crap you buy at GNC to real steroids you just need to walk over a few isles and look at their energy section. In your comparison it would be the same as amphetamines. Most of that stuff will also make you fail a drug test in most sports. Some will also make you fail a urine drug test for work.