E90-1s have plate scratches too!

[Pat R]

Ed,
It looks like Jesse Tannehill might line up with Tenney,
but there is a strip of blue on Tannehill that eliminates
Tenney so it must be another player that matches
the Tenney scratch. Any ideas on players to check for this scratch?
Tenney-.jpg
Tannehil Front.jpgTannehill Crop.jpg

[Pat R]

One thing that's going to make it a little tougher is that there are two
scratches through a sheet(s) that are similar.

This Marquard is very close but just a little lower than the Tenney.
Tenney - Copy.jpgTenney - Copy (2).jpg

[edhans]

Pat,
That blue mark on the Tannehill looks like a slightly misaligned color pass. Might be difficult to identify. I did find a Lumley that may correspond. I would consider the two potential sheet mates. Haven't had time to look any further. Hope to do so this weekend. Interesting observation on the Marquard/Tenney scratches. I'm sure I would have missed that one. Thanks again for all your efforts. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by edhans

Pat,
That blue mark on the Tannehill looks like a slightly misaligned color pass. Might be difficult to identify. I did find a Lumley that may correspond. I would consider the two potential sheet mates. Haven't had time to look any further. Hope to do so this weekend. Interesting observation on the Marquard/Tenney scratches. I'm sure I would have missed that one. Thanks again for all your efforts. Happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too Ed.
I thought a Blue color shift from the grass on Oakes might be a possibility
Too. It's hard to try and line them up with different scans, they get distorted
when you try and resize them.
Tannehill%20-%20Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg

It makes it a little more of a challenge with the similar scratches but that's ok
I think with some time we can figure it out. The Piedmonts have a couple that are similar and that's why when I got seriously involved in it I decided I need to have the cards in hand for accuracy.

These are all plate scratches. I've added quite a few since these pictures were taken.
DSCN0383.jpg
DSCN0385.jpg
DSCN0392.jpg
DSCN0399.jpg

[Pat R]

ED, I found a scratch that matches Tenney. There are two Engle scratches so far
and one of them is the same as Tenney.
Engle 2 Matches Tenney.jpgTenney.jpg

Here's the other Engle
Engle.jpg

[tedzan]

Hi Ed

You and I have had some interesting discussions regarding E90-1 cards these past 10 years . Glad to hear you still have your set.
I put this 120-card set together in the mid-1990's. In recent years, when the price of the Joe Jax went "bananas", I broke up this
set and sold 77 % of it. Shown below are 10 of the 28 cards I kept.

Anyhow, none of these 28 cards have any of the so-called "plate scratches" on their backs. Not even the slightest trace of any "ink
streaks".

Furthermore, I compared notes with a fellow E90-1 collector nearby in Pennsylvania, who has a complete 120-card set (and approx.
60 dupes). And the only cards in his collection with "ink streaks" are Demmitt, Joss (portrait), Overall, Phelps, Stone (left arm), Jeff
Sweeney & Roy Thomas. Also, he has an extra Joss (portrait) and Jeff Sweeney which do NOT have "ink streaks". Total = 208 cards.

This results to only 3.3 % of this particular 208-card sample with this printing anomaly. In the past 25 years, I have seen many E90
cards, that I would venture to say a larger sample of these cards will yield even a lower percentage. Therefore, can we really rely on
such inconsistencies in attempting to determine a valid sheet layout ?

I don't think so.









. .












Incidentally, Ed......your sample percentage (4/125 = 3.2 %) coincides with the sample percentage that I noted above (3.3 %).


TED Z
.

[irishdenny]

Here's One from Mr. Keeler...
The Plate Scratch Runs Across Mr. Keeler's Chest!

Curious...
Does Anyone Else See the # "2"
On the Bottom RiGHT SiDe of His Shirt!?
It's appears in the Black/White Area
To the RiGHT, Under the "Y" From the N Y Insignia...
If You Stare at it, the "2" Comes More ta Life!

Reminds me of the old Cards,
Where they ask You if You can See the Dog in the Picture!?
Can You?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Ed

You and I have had some interesting discussions regarding E90-1 cards these past 10 years . Glad to hear you still have your set.
I put this 120-card set together in the mid-1990's. In recent years, when the price of the Joe Jax went "bananas", I broke up this
set and sold 77 % of it. Shown below are 10 of the 28 cards I kept.

Anyhow, none of these 28 cards have any of the so-called "plate scratches" on their backs. Not even the slightest trace of any "ink
streaks".

Furthermore, I compared notes with a fellow E90-1 collector nearby in Pennsylvania, who has a complete 120-card set (and approx.
60 dupes). And the only cards in his collection with "ink streaks" are Demmitt, Joss (portrait), Overall, Phelps, Stone (left arm), Jeff
Sweeney & Roy Thomas. Also, he has an extra Joss (portrait) and Jeff Sweeney which do NOT have "ink streaks". Total = 208 cards.

This results to only 3.3 % of this particular 208-card sample with this printing anomaly. In the past 25 years, I have seen many E90
cards, that I would venture to say a larger sample of these cards will yield even a lower percentage. Therefore, can we really rely on
such inconsistencies in attempting to determine a valid sheet layout ?

I don't think so.

Incidentally, Ed......your sample percentage (4/125 = 3.2 %) coincides with the sample percentage that I noted above (3.3 %).


TED Z
.

Hi Ted,
I know your post is directed at Ed but I would like to respond too.

No offense but I don't think you understand the plate scratches. I would be happy to bring some plate scratch cards and meet with you sometime in
the future and have a discussion.

I'm not sure how they occurred but I think it probably happened in the moving
of them in the printing process.

Some of the stones were very large and I have seen pictures from around
that time period where they were stored on racks similar to this.
1 Litography_archive_of_the_Bayerisches_Vermessungsamt.jpg
1 sl-374.jpg

I'm sure a large number of sheets were printed before the scratches occurred
and only a small number would have the scratches on them. Using this test
sheet I made you can see only 25% of the cards have a scratch (9 out of 36).
1 E90-1 test sheet.jpg
So combining this with the number of sheets that were printed before the scratch occurred would result in a low % although I think 3.3% is too low
of an estimate.

I think describing them as inconsistent is incorrect. The great thing about
them is they are very consistent. A scratch on a subject from a particular
sheet position is always in the same place.

Here's multiple examples of a Seymour scratch.
Seymour 1 Group Back.jpg
Seymour 1 Group.jpg
There are two on ebay right now with that same exact scratch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...cAAOSw3KFWchuH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSwnGJWSo7F

That Seymour scratch is on this sheet.
1 Sheet%20F-B[2].jpg

Here's the Seymour under that one.
Seymour 2.jpg
Seymour 1-Seymour 2.jpg

Cicotte is next to Seymour on that sheet and Here's some of them.

This Cicottte lines up with the Seymour's I posted above.
Cicotte 1.jpg
Cicotte 1-seymour.jpg

This pair
Cicotte 4.jpg
Seymour 2.jpg
Cicotte 4 -seymour 2.jpg

And another pairing
Cicotte 5.jpg
Seymour 6.jpg
Cicotte 5-Seymour 6.jpg

And there's also a front mark that shows Cicotte and Seymour were next to each other on this sheet.
1 Seymour%20_5_ - Copy.jpg
1 Seymour [5] - Copy - Copy.jpg