baseball playoffs

[chaddurbin]

interesting fact...pedro baez for the 3rd year in a row has come in and allowed an inherited runner of kershaw to score. in his 12 career starts, 8 of 11 of kershaw's baserunners have scored. that was a damn gutsy performance. if you thought that start somehow tarnished his legacy we're watching different games.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Sandy Koufax had given up 3 runs and then loaded the bases in the 7th before being chased, nobody would have said, oh what a gutsy performance. Kershaw in the regular season has been the equal of Koufax at his peak. He just can't pitch in the post-season worth a damn, for the most part.

And yes the bullpen let him down. But an elite pitcher doesn't load em up and hope his bullpen can rescue him.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If Sandy Koufax had given up 3 runs and then loaded the bases in the 7th before being chased, nobody would have said, oh what a gutsy performance. Kershaw in the regular season has been the equal of Koufax at his peak. He just can't pitch in the post-season worth a damn, for the most part.

Well Koufax started 7 games in the postseason and his record was 4-3 and Kershaw is 3-6

id rather have a pitcher give up 3 runs and get the win then give up 2 runs and get the loss. Yes i know there are many other factors but if you are up 5 runs you tend to give up runs easier than up 1-0 if you are focusing on ERA. Afterall if you lose 1-0 that means the opposing pitcher beat you out so we should be honoring that guy and not the guy that lost 1-0 for example.

Kershaw has been bad in the postseason but i dont see how this year he added to being a bad postseason pitcher with 11ks today and his team going 2-0 in his starts (getting the win in one of them and in line to get the win in the other) in a best of 5 series when his team was the underdog..

Bullpen shouldnt be relied to always rescue someone but its not normal to allow 85% of the inherited runners to score either, If there were any inherited runners on base after Koufax left any games, i will assume less than 85% of the time they scored, again if there even were any

[Peter_Spaeth]

4-3 with an 0.95 ERA. Case closed.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4-3 with an 0.95 ERA. Case closed.

right he won one more game than he lost. So in a Huge game he had a little over a 50/50 chance to win . Its not the total runs that matter, its when you give up the runs.

The opposing pitchers just took better care of business (bob shaw, kaat, palmer ) than Koufax did in those 3 losses or about half the games in pitched in the postseason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

double post

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...a01&t=p&post=1

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...l01&t=p&post=1

If you want to even suggest these are comparable, you can have that discussion with yourself. Spin it any way you want to. Kershaw has been a major disappointment in the post-season overall, and (so far anyhow, who knows he may not be done) he has been mediocre at best this year.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...a01&t=p&post=1

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...l01&t=p&post=1

If you want to even suggest these are comparable, you can have that discussion with yourself. Spin it any way you want to. Kershaw has been a major disappointment in the post-season overall, and (so far anyhow, who knows he may not be done) he has been mediocre at best this year.

Not here to compare, but i think people would be surprised that Koufax was only 4-3 in the postseason and kershaw isnt close to be being done yet..and like the other poster said, there were a ton of inherited runners that scored that could easily of dropped Kershaws era to the 3.00 range and more runs are scored in todays game then they were in Koufax's time....

Basically if Urias started game 1 and game 4 for the dodgers i really do not think the dodgers win both games. In game 4, if the Nationals jumped out ahead in the first few innings the Dodgers i think lose. The fact kershaw put up all those early zeros means something to go along with 11ks

Just saying Kerhaw really has not disappointed in the playoffs thus far THIS YEAR with his team winning both games...and really nothing to criticize him for this year when he got the W and he was in line for the W in game 4 on short rest and the Dodgers winning both of his starts in a 5 game series..

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right he won one more game than he lost. So in a Huge game he had a little over a 50/50 chance to win . Its not the total runs that matter, its when you give up the runs.

The opposing pitchers just took better care of business (bob shaw, kaat, palmer ) than Koufax did in those 3 losses or about half the games in pitched in the postseason.

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6.70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6/70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

+1. Or conversely, said to have performed poorly because he lost? So Kershaw (W, ERA 5.40) pitched better in his NLDS Game #1 than Cueto (L, ERA 1.13) did in his? One would have to be a fool to propose such a nonsense.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6/70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

I agree that Ws dont matter at all statisticlaly but we all know how history looks back at games. If Kershaws teams won every one of his past starts, noone would be saying how bad he was in the postseaon if he was 9-0. .

ERA isnt the sole indicator either or really important at all if your team wins every game. If your team scores 9 runs in the first inning, nobody cares if you then give up 5 runs in 7 innings which would lead to a brutal ERA but would give you the W. I do not think you would blame a pitcher for giving up 5 runs in that situation.

Like i said, if Manning lost the superbowl last year, we would be hearing a lot more of his legacy being tarnished. However his team bailed him out and it does matter when you look back at his career 20 years from now.

Just at it would matter for Kershaw if he won all of his postseason games but had an era of 6.00

What was Manning's QBR for the superbowl, does it matter since he won (even though it was a team win) They will still say has 2 'rings'.

In addition, Curry wasnt great for his lone Golden State Championship but his team got the 'W'. Wins matter even if you arent the one that was the main contributer and were supposed to be is all i am saying

Again, to keep on topic, i dont see Kershaw hurting his post season image this year with his team winning both of his starts..