Waste.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

It sounds crazy, but there is a lot of product out there now that costs even more. And there are high end collectors that break multiple cases of various issues as soon as they come out. Out of my league, but someone I used to work with did it frequently. He sells most of the cards right away, and keeps a few here and there for his collection. Occasionally he would take a big hit but it was amazing how often he'd break even or turn a profit despite keeping a couple cards.

And those $500 exquisite packs from 03 now go for about 10k. If you can find one.

I'd rather just put 10K on red. Seems like that would be more fiscally responsible.

[nat]

I'll second Charlie there.

One of the reasons that modern cards don't interest me is that they really are just a kind of gambling. Cardboard slot machines. There has always been some tomfoolery involved in baseball cards: think of the Goudey Lajoie; just skipping a number to get the kids to buy more cards is pretty sneaky. But, as far as I can tell, this is all that modern cards have become.

As for whether they'll hold their value, I don't know. But most collectibles that are made to be collectible are junk (think about things like the decorative plates that they sell on QVC). Vintage cards (this is actually a nice crossover point for another thread) weren't made to be collectibles, at least not in any modern sense, they were made to be children's toys. Bike spokes and all that. Now, it's permissible to think that adults shouldn't spend money collecting children's toys, but if there is a problem with it, it's not the same one as buying lottery tickets from Upper Deck.

[pokerplyr80]

I think the discussion over if the card is worth the price is similar to those asking if a PSA 10 63 Rose is really worth the 700k or whatever it sold for. For one it's irrelevant what we think, it was worth it to the guy who won it, and worth almost as much to the under bidder. It's a 1 of 1, and LeBron's most sought after rookie card. Or one of them. There are thousands of 63 Rose's out there, and perhaps 100s of thousands of LeBron rookies. But only one PSA 10 and only one 1 of 1 logoman auto.

I'd still rather have the signed 33 goudey ruth for 50k. But I wasn't bidding on either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I think the discussion over if the card is worth the price is similar to those asking if a PSA 10 63 Rose is really worth the 700k or whatever it sold for. For one it's irrelevant what we think, it was worth it to the guy who won it, and worth almost as much to the under bidder. It's a 1 of 1, and LeBron's most sought after rookie card. Or one of them. There are thousands of 63 Rose's out there, and perhaps 100s of thousands of LeBron rookies. But only one PSA 10 and only one 1 of 1 logoman auto.

I'd still rather have the signed 33 goudey ruth for 50k. But I wasn't bidding on either.

By your definition nobody in history has ever overpaid for anything, because it was "worth it to the guy who won it."

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By your definition nobody in history has ever overpaid for anything, because it was "worth it to the guy who won it."

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

I don't get your point. Nobody said it mattered what we think. If that was a requirement for having a discussion there wouldn't be many, would there?

As for 1/1s, I disagree. The LeBron is a 1/1 due to artificial, manufactured scarcity. Topps could print a million Jeter rookies and put a red dot on one of them and it would be a 1/1 too. So what? And Rose is one of 30 or so graded Mint. I would bet anything if you cracked out the 10 and the 25+ 9s you could not reliably pick out the 10. So again, so what? The 10 is an artificial grade and if it's a 1/1 that is, to me, artificial as well.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't get your point. Nobody said it mattered what we think. If that was a requirement for having a discussion there wouldn't be many, would there?

As for 1/1s, I disagree. The LeBron is a 1/1 due to artificial, manufactured scarcity. Topps could print a million Jeter rookies and put a red dot on one of them and it would be a 1/1 too. So what? And Rose is one of 30 or so graded Mint. I would bet anything if you cracked out the 10 and the 25+ 9s you could not reliably pick out the 10. So again, so what?

I don't see the point in criticizing someone for their purchase. Calling it a waste, him stupid, etc. He spent what he spent. I doubt anyone commenting in the thread even considered bidding. A modern card selling for 300k is worth mentioning on the board. Insulting the guy who bought it is in bad form, in my opinion.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

plus if bidding is legit....whatever the winning bid was...the underbidder may of just been a few hundred below them and another bidder a few hundred more.

so when talking thousands and thousands of dollars...maybe the winning buyer was willing to 'overpay' by 1-3 percent to win the card....to me thats just market price ...we expect to lose 5-10% on any card we buy at a huge auction and sell the next week in an auction.

Now on private sales i can see someone 'overpaying' when no one else would pay within 50% of what a guy paid to pry a card out of someone's hands...but still time will tell.

but again in a fair auction...noone is going to be paying 50% more than the market due to all the under bidders.....in a private deal , all you have is the seller saying 'i already have someone offering X for the card' thats not as legit as seeing a real bid in an auction..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

plus if bidding is legit....whatever the winning bid was...the underbidder may of just been a few hundred below them and another bidder a few hundred more.

so when talking thousands and thousands of dollars...maybe the winning buyer was willing to 'overpay' by 1-3 percent to win the card....to me thats just market price ...we expect to lose 5-10% on any card we buy at a huge auction and sell the next week in an auction.

Now on private sales i can see someone 'overpaying' when no one else would pay within 50% of what a guy paid to pry a card out of someone's hands...but still time will tell.

but again in a fair auction...noone is going to be paying 50% more than the market due to all the under bidders.....in a private deal , all you have is the seller saying 'i already have someone offering X for the card' thats not as legit as seeing a real bid in an auction..

Two people or even three can get caught up in hype and hysteria just as easily as one. So to me a "legit" auction price is not at all inconsistent with the winner overpaying.

[mark evans]

I would never suggest to someone how he should spend his money, but if the buyer of the James card expects to redeem his investment at some point, I think he runs the risk of disappointment. I don't think that cards that are highly valued because of a contrived limited supply (like one of one) will retain their value over time. It's my guess that at some point collectors will recognize that there is little difference among autographed rookie cards of LeBron, or anyone else for that matter.