Waste.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By your definition nobody in history has ever overpaid for anything, because it was "worth it to the guy who won it."

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

I don't get your point. Nobody said it mattered what we think. If that was a requirement for having a discussion there wouldn't be many, would there?

As for 1/1s, I disagree. The LeBron is a 1/1 due to artificial, manufactured scarcity. Topps could print a million Jeter rookies and put a red dot on one of them and it would be a 1/1 too. So what? And Rose is one of 30 or so graded Mint. I would bet anything if you cracked out the 10 and the 25+ 9s you could not reliably pick out the 10. So again, so what? The 10 is an artificial grade and if it's a 1/1 that is, to me, artificial as well.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't get your point. Nobody said it mattered what we think. If that was a requirement for having a discussion there wouldn't be many, would there?

As for 1/1s, I disagree. The LeBron is a 1/1 due to artificial, manufactured scarcity. Topps could print a million Jeter rookies and put a red dot on one of them and it would be a 1/1 too. So what? And Rose is one of 30 or so graded Mint. I would bet anything if you cracked out the 10 and the 25+ 9s you could not reliably pick out the 10. So again, so what?

I don't see the point in criticizing someone for their purchase. Calling it a waste, him stupid, etc. He spent what he spent. I doubt anyone commenting in the thread even considered bidding. A modern card selling for 300k is worth mentioning on the board. Insulting the guy who bought it is in bad form, in my opinion.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Insulting the guy who bought it is in bad form, in my opinion.

+1

[Mdmtx]

Since manufactured scarcity is meaningless, does that apply to leaf Graziano, caramel McKinley and Lindstrom, and Goudey Lajoie? In my opinion these are all the same as the LeBron 1/1. Short produced to keep people purchasing their products. The only difference I see is the level of transparency.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Since manufactured scarcity is meaningless, does that apply to leaf Graziano, caramel McKinley and Lindstrom, and Goudey Lajoie? In my opinion these are all the same as the LeBron 1/1. Short produced to keep people purchasing their products. The only difference I see is the level of transparency.

You can take lajoie off the list as this was printed in response to collectors complaining... And anyone could have received this card free of charge all they had to do was ask. Theoretically there could be way more lajoies than any other card in the set...although this is obviiusly not the case.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

You can take lajoie off the list as this was printed in response to collectors complaining... And anyone could have received this card free of charge all they had to do was ask. Theoretically there could be way more lajoies than any other card in the set...although this is obviiusly not the case.

You can take it off your list. I will keep it on mine. It IS a manufactured scarcity.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

The only difference I see is the level of transparency.

To be honest, I am not that familiar with this specific James card - is it part of a regular Upper Deck set or just a stand alone piece of memorabilia? Do you need the card in order to complete the set, as you would with the McKinley, Lindstrom, Lajoie, etc.?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Since manufactured scarcity is meaningless, does that apply to leaf Graziano, caramel McKinley and Lindstrom, and Goudey Lajoie? In my opinion these are all the same as the LeBron 1/1. Short produced to keep people purchasing their products. The only difference I see is the level of transparency.

Same with the George C. Miller Ivy Andrews.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Since manufactured scarcity is meaningless, does that apply to leaf Graziano, caramel McKinley and Lindstrom, and Goudey Lajoie? In my opinion these are all the same as the LeBron 1/1. Short produced to keep people purchasing their products. The only difference I see is the level of transparency.

Different IMO. At the time none of those cards, though scarce by design, were worth anything. They weren't short printed to create artificially valuable collectibles.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Different IMO. At the time none of those cards, though scarce by design, were worth anything. They weren't short printed to create artificially valuable collectibles.

I don't believe the reason the LeBron was created was to create artificial value. I believe it was created to sell packs, boxes and cases. The exact reason the others were made. I believe they are one and the same. Would I buy the LeBron card - if I could afford it? Probably not. Would I consider the others I mentioned, maybe, but not a 100% lock. The value of scrap cardboard is about 160 bucks (+/-) and anything more than that, there is no guarantee on investment recapture. So the question, in my mind, could I get 6 figure enjoyment from pride of ownership from any of these? My answer would be no on all except Lajoie. Then bring in the possibility of appreciation as a novelty collectible same question... would I buy for investment? Possible on the older stuff, IMO too risky on the newer LeBron. So, in my mind I would probably only purchase 1 of these and that would be Lajoie. But I feel the production was created with the same exact marketing mindset on each and everyone. The reason I would likely buy the Lajoie would have to do with the colored insert pages in the first sport Americana annual. I used to look at that Lajoie and drool. So my desire is also a form of marketing that was done by the producers of the price guide. Like everything that we may covet, there is something, somewhere manipulating our desires. There will always be informationprovid4d to create perceived value on items. Otherwise, Don Mossi and Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth would all be valued the same.

And to get back to the point of this post, I firmly believe that each of these examples were created for exactly the same reason in each case. To increase sales and build customer base.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

People over pay for things all of the time. My point is that it doesn't matter if we think he did. And that it's very difficult to say when your talking about the only one in existence.

plus if bidding is legit....whatever the winning bid was...the underbidder may of just been a few hundred below them and another bidder a few hundred more.

so when talking thousands and thousands of dollars...maybe the winning buyer was willing to 'overpay' by 1-3 percent to win the card....to me thats just market price ...we expect to lose 5-10% on any card we buy at a huge auction and sell the next week in an auction.

Now on private sales i can see someone 'overpaying' when no one else would pay within 50% of what a guy paid to pry a card out of someone's hands...but still time will tell.

but again in a fair auction...noone is going to be paying 50% more than the market due to all the under bidders.....in a private deal , all you have is the seller saying 'i already have someone offering X for the card' thats not as legit as seeing a real bid in an auction..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

plus if bidding is legit....whatever the winning bid was...the underbidder may of just been a few hundred below them and another bidder a few hundred more.

so when talking thousands and thousands of dollars...maybe the winning buyer was willing to 'overpay' by 1-3 percent to win the card....to me thats just market price ...we expect to lose 5-10% on any card we buy at a huge auction and sell the next week in an auction.

Now on private sales i can see someone 'overpaying' when no one else would pay within 50% of what a guy paid to pry a card out of someone's hands...but still time will tell.

but again in a fair auction...noone is going to be paying 50% more than the market due to all the under bidders.....in a private deal , all you have is the seller saying 'i already have someone offering X for the card' thats not as legit as seeing a real bid in an auction..

Two people or even three can get caught up in hype and hysteria just as easily as one. So to me a "legit" auction price is not at all inconsistent with the winner overpaying.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Two people or even three can get caught up in hype and hysteria just as easily as one. So to me a "legit" auction price is not at all inconsistent with the winner overpaying.

right but theres a chance they werent caught up as well. There still were others willing to go very close to the sale price

when you do a private deal you have no way to know if someone else is even willing to bid close in a hysteria situation if thats all it was..

[Mdmtx]

George Carlin hit the nail on the head:

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”

[Jewish-collector]

I'm sure the guy who bought the James card said to his family and/or friends, "Sometimes you gotta say WTF"

[mark evans]

I would never suggest to someone how he should spend his money, but if the buyer of the James card expects to redeem his investment at some point, I think he runs the risk of disappointment. I don't think that cards that are highly valued because of a contrived limited supply (like one of one) will retain their value over time. It's my guess that at some point collectors will recognize that there is little difference among autographed rookie cards of LeBron, or anyone else for that matter.