Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[barrysloate]

I haven't posted in over a year, but after slogging through this thread I felt compelled to say something. And it was ltclarkes post at #167 that got me to do so. Here's what I take away from reading this thread: Everybody is shouting, and nobody is listening.

I've been saying for awhile now that I think America is very close to a civil war. No, not like the one from the 1860's- we won't see cannon fire or rifles fitted with bayonets- but we are pretty much in an ideological one. I am really afraid that after the election in two months, the country is going to explode. And I admit I have absolutely no idea how it can be prevented.

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

And I won't be posting again, so please excuse me if I don't answer a post sent my way. Thanks for listening.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

Not directed at you Barry, but this probably fits here best. Many who are paying attention believe that is the whole point, to foment that discontent. Taken in historical context, the black shootings by police officers are WAY down from 40 years ago.

http://www.cjcj.org/news/8113

[bbcard1]

I would have been a lot more of an impactful statement had it been made when he was a relevant player.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

you're right barry. people tend to watch the news channel that aligns with their viewpoint, they follow and read people online that reinforces their beliefs. if you don't like something or someone you unfollow it, so your worldview intake only strengthen what you believe in and it hardens over time. even tho the world is shrinking with internet and social media lines are being drawn and viewpoints are extremely divisive.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

you're right barry. people tend to watch the news channel that aligns with their viewpoint, they follow and read people online that reinforces their beliefs. if you don't like something or someone you unfollow it, so your worldview intake only strengthen what you believe in and it hardens over time. even tho the world is shrinking with internet and social media lines are being drawn and viewpoints are extremely divisive.

I completely agree with the news pushing their own agenda. It is amazing how many things that are reported in our news about other countries is 100% BS.

[bn2cardz]

I am not going to attempt to argue one point or another, but I thought I would share the thoughts of a coworker of mine. She is a widowed black mother of 4 sons with the youngest just having gone to college. She lives and raised her boys in Ferguson, MO.

She went on rant after rant during the Ferguson riots. But it wasn't an anti-police/pro-riot stance as some would make you believe, it was the exact opposite. Yet her side of the story wasn't the one the news would cover. She would constantly said that if there was any racism in the cops in Ferguson she would have known it. Yet her sons were never pulled over for something that wasn't deserved (one son ran from the cops when he realized he didn't have his ID). She hated that Michael Brown was considered anything but a "thug" stating him and his whole family were trouble in the community.

The stuff she has said would make a white man seem racist if they said it. Her major point, though, was that it is no longer a skin color issue. She believes that it is a social issue. That a black guy that doesn't look like a "thug" and treats people respectful will be treated right. A white guy that acts like a "thug" and disrespects is going to be treated the same as the black guy acting the same way.

I just thought I would share her thoughts since she has a perspective that most on this board don't have.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I am not going to attempt to argue one point or another, but I thought I would share the thoughts of a coworker of mine. She is a widowed black mother of 4 sons with the youngest just having gone to college. She lives and raised her boys in Ferguson, MO.

She went on rant after rant during the Ferguson riots. But it wasn't an anti-police/pro-riot stance as some would make you believe, it was the exact opposite. Yet her side of the story wasn't the one the news would cover. She would constantly said that if there was any racism in the cops in Ferguson she would have known it. Yet her sons were never pulled over for something that wasn't deserved (one son ran from the cops when he realized he didn't have his ID). She hated that Michael Brown was considered anything but a "thug" stating him and his whole family were trouble in the community.

The stuff she has said would make a white man seem racist if they said it. Her major point, though, was that it is no longer a skin color issue. She believes that it is a social issue. That a black guy that doesn't look like a "thug" and treats people respectful will be treated right. A white guy that acts like a "thug" and disrespects is going to be treated the same as the black guy acting the same way.

I just thought I would share her thoughts since she has a perspective that most on this board don't have.

interesting perspective but the Doctor that treated all of those police officers that were shot in dallas was black and he said when he doesnt wear the doctors coat and drives on the street he is pulled over or is stopped when walking on the street and he doesnt dress like a thug...we can all point to examples for anything

Interesting in an article about him being a rare black doctor
The lack of black male doctors is bad for patients. White doctors undertreat the pain of black patients, studies have shown. And research by the University of Virginia found that white medical students had "fantastical" beliefs about the bodies of blacks. Half of the white medical students surveyed thought that blacks had less sensitive nerve endings and that their blood clotted more quickly than the blood of a white person.

[packs]

Please inform your coworker that the Department of Justice found the Ferguson Police Department and it's court system to be racially bias toward African Americans. That was a government finding, not an opinion:

Even relatively routine misconduct by Ferguson police officers can have significant consequences for the people whose rights are violated. For example, in the summer of 2012, a 32-year-old African-American man sat in his car cooling off after playing basketball in a Ferguson public park. An officer pulled up behind the man’s car, blocking him in, and demanded the man’s Social Security number and identification. Without any cause, the officer accused the man of being a pedophile, referring to the presence of children in the park, and ordered the man out of his car for a pat-down, although the officer had no reason to believe the man was armed. The officer also asked to search the man’s car. The man objected, citing his constitutional rights. In response, the officer arrested the man, reportedly at gunpoint, charging him with eight violations of Ferguson’s municipal code. One charge, Making a False Declaration, was for initially providing the short form of his first name (e.g., “Mike” instead of “Michael”), and an address which, although legitimate, was different from the one on his driver’s license. Another charge was for not wearing a seat belt, even though he was seated in a parked car. The officer also charged the man both with having an expired operator’s license, and with having no operator’s license in his possession. The man told us that, because of these charges, he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government that he had held for years.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Please inform your coworker that the Department of Justice found the Ferguson Police Department and it's court system to be racially bias toward African Americans, blah, blah, blah...

This the same DOJ that up until recently was led by AG Eric Holder, who he himself said that white people can't be victims of racial injustice. Imagine that.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

This the same DOJ that up until recently was led by AG Eric Holder, who he himself said that white people can't be victims of racial injustice. Imagine that.

LOL! Got 'em!!!!!!!

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

This the same DOJ that up until recently was led by AG Eric Holder, who he himself said that white people can't be victims of racial injustice. Imagine that.

No, this is the same DOJ that covered up voter intimidation, ran Fast and Furious, was run by an AG that lied under oath, interfered with local non-partisan elections*, objected to the release of the Michael Brown robbery video, and continues to ignore FIOA requests. This is the DOJ we should take at face value and trust in.

* "The Justice Department’s ruling, which affects races for City Council and mayor, went so far as to say partisan elections are needed so that black voters can elect their “candidates of choice” - identified by the department as those who are Democrats and almost exclusively black."

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Please inform your coworker that the Department of Justice found the Ferguson Police Department and it's court system to be racially bias toward African Americans.

So you want me to tell an African American woman with 4 sons that live and have lived their entire lives in Ferguson. Some one that lived and breathed all of it through the eyes of a Ferguson resident with black skin, that she is wrong about what she encounters everyday because you read an article that said otherwise? I gave her perspective as someone living it, not a bias opinion based on political beliefs or anything else. As she said to me "if it was really that bad, I am sure with 4 black sons I would have heard something by now."

I know, as does she, what the DOJ report reads. Again her opinion is that it is more about the way the people conducted themselves rather than the color of their skin. I am sorry but as a white male I will not argue with a widowed black woman with 4 sons living through all this daily that she doesn't know what she is talking about and that she is being racially profiled.

[egri]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

So you want me to tell an African American woman with 4 sons that live and have lived their entire lives in Ferguson. Some one that lived and breathed all of it through the eyes of a Ferguson resident with black skin, that she is wrong about what she encounters everyday because you read an article that said otherwise? I gave her perspective as someone living it, not a bias opinion based on political beliefs or anything else. As she said to me "if it was really that bad, I am sure with 4 black sons I would have heard something by now."

I know, as does she, what the DOJ report reads. Again her opinion is that it is more about the way the people conducted themselves rather than the color of their skin. I am sorry but as a white male I will not argue with a widowed black woman with 4 sons living through all this daily that she doesn't know what she is talking about and that she is being racially profiled.

Reading Packs's reply reminded me of the time in the 1970s at a meeting of the RMS Titanic Historical Society when Ruth Becker, who survived the sinking as a child, was addressing the attendees, and told them how she had witnessed Titanic break in two before sinking. Almost immediately, one of the Titanic "experts" seated next to her grabbed the microphone away from her and announced that she only thought she had seen the ship break in two; it had actually sunk intact, and Becker was mistaken. Becker grabbed the microphone back and told him "I was there". About ten years later, the wreck was discovered in two pieces.