1954 Topps Aaron RC versus 1955 Topps Clemente RC

[stargell1]

Originally Posted by CW

Did I miss some instances of Aaron being unpleasant to fans or the press?

Yes. Aaron is a well known racist.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/hank-...obama-critics/

[ALR-bishop]

That excerpt certainly proves...nothing

[Vintagevault13]

I have lived in Atlanta/NE Georgia my entire life and I honestly can't recall hearing anything but admiration for Aaron. He has been a great ambassador for the city. I understand that his remarks in USA Today upset some people. I admit that I was bothered at the time as they seemed to paint with a very broad brush. I honestly don't think he meant the comment to be interpreted to include as many people as it seemed to implicate. With all that Aaron encountered chasing Ruth's record (racist hate mail, death threats), I think that he handled the situation with much grace and class. Many would have been much more bitter and turned their back on the city, team, and fans. He has done just the opposite as he has continued to be a vital part of the organization and community.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

I have lived in Atlanta/NE Georgia my entire life and I honestly can't recall hearing anything but admiration for Aaron. He has been a great ambassador for the city. I understand that his remarks in USA Today upset some people. I admit that I was bothered at the time as they seemed to paint with a very broad brush. I honestly don't think he meant the comment to be interpreted to include as many people as it seemed to implicate. With all that Aaron encountered chasing Ruth's record (racist hate mail, death threats), I think that he handled the situation with much grace and class. Many would have been much more bitter and turned their back on the city, team, and fans. He has done just the opposite as he has continued to be a vital part of the organization and community.

110%.

duffle bags upon duffle bags of hate mail and death threats solely for being black.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Imagine playing the outfield and going to bat wondering if maybe, just maybe, one of the people who had threatened to kill you at the ballpark was going to try it that day.

[ullmandds]

tough to blame any black man...especially one who played in the early days of integration, for being leary of the "white man"...like mohammed ali.

[irv]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

110%.

duffle bags upon duffle bags of hate mail and death threats solely for being black.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Imagine playing the outfield and going to bat wondering if maybe, just maybe, one of the people who had threatened to kill you at the ballpark was going to try it that day.

I couldn't imagine what these guys, (Aaron and Robinson and a lot more) had to go through, and it even continues today, sadly

[stargell1]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

tough to blame any black man...especially one who played in the early days of integration to be very leary of the "white man"...like mohammed ali.

I suppose every racist has their own excuses.

[gomaz]

Thanks for all of the informative responses.

This post below really gave me the information I was looking for especially the bolded parts. I think those might be the key reasons why the Clemente commands more dollars. It seems like reverie is more important, in this case, than who was the better player, the card's known graded population, and the relative popularity of the two sets, all put together.

Originally Posted by Gr8Beldini

Aaron was a better player than Clemente; a better player than all but a fist full of players in MLB history. But nobody is debating "better player." Clemente is a God in the Hispanic community. Aaron doesn't have anywhere near that kind of following in any community. Clemente is revered in Pittsburgh... not-so-much Aaron in Milwaukee/Atlanta. Plus Clemente won 2 championships (owning 1971); died a heroic death; his rookie card is scarcer than Hank's... Hank was a great great player; Roberto was an iconic player that was great. There is more demand for "iconic" than for "great."

Originally Posted by RobertC

"As far as I'm concerned, (Hank) Aaron is the best ball player of my era. He is to baseball of the last fifteen years what Joe DiMaggio was before him. He's never received the credit he's due." - Mickey Mantle

That says a lot right there that the Aaron may be undervalued.

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

I have lived in Atlanta/NE Georgia my entire life and I honestly can't recall hearing anything but admiration for Aaron. He has been a great ambassador for the city. I understand that his remarks in USA Today upset some people. I admit that I was bothered at the time as they seemed to paint with a very broad brush. I honestly don't think he meant the comment to be interpreted to include as many people as it seemed to implicate. With all that Aaron encountered chasing Ruth's record (racist hate mail, death threats), I think that he handled the situation with much grace and class. Many would have been much more bitter and turned their back on the city, team, and fans. He has done just the opposite as he has continued to be a vital part of the organization and community.

That is really good and nice to hear.

Jeremy Lee

[Rookiemonster]

I get that aaron had it hard but he is a American .imagine how hard clemente must of had it .I'm sure he got it pretty bad as well . I don't remember ever hearing about him getting racist with people .nothing gives you the right to be racist . TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.

[stargell1]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I get that aaron had it hard but he is a American .imagine how hard clemente must of had it .I'm sure he got it pretty bad as well . I don't remember ever hearing about him getting racist with people .nothing gives you the right to be racist . TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.

I agree with everything you said except for Aaron had it hard. I wouldn't call being blessed with the ability to get rich and famous playing a game for a living..hard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by stargell1

I agree with everything you said except for Aaron had it hard. I wouldn't call being blessed with the ability to get rich and famous playing a game for a living..hard.

You should have quit while you were behind. I suggest you do some reading about his life. Having the ability to play baseball did not insulate him from bigotry. For example, how many crosses did the Klan burn in your front yard? How many death threats have you received?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's pretty stunning to think that in my lifetime, below a certain latitude, a person might not be served, or permitted to stay in a hotel, because of their skin color. As late as 1980, I remember stopping at a rural Virginia restaurant after a hiking trip up in the mountains and the place was full of signs making it absolutely clear that blacks were not welcome and that it was only because of Congress and the Supreme Court that the owners were legally required to serve them.

So I agree we need to be pretty careful how we judge people who experienced those things. And I am not saying two wrongs make a right or anything like that.

[Rookiemonster]

Funny I just went through Virginia on a family road trip.the had a gigantic confederate flag flying.


To me if you experienced it and still do it to someone else or a entire group. It multiples it and shows utter disregard .so now Aaron can make death threats to people just because he received
Some.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I agree we need to be pretty careful how we judge people who experienced those things.

Let's be honest with ourselves what this is about, Peter. It is not a race thing, it is not a black or white thing. It's one political party vilifying another because of their criticism of the president. The same comments have been made by others who are white - Janeane Garofalo, Keith Olberman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Chris Matthews, and the list just goes on and on. What do all those folks have in common? They political views all lean a certain direction. That's why I said in my original post, it's not a race thing (the same thing is said by both black and white people) its about politics. Again, I don't find Aaron a racist, he's just a dumbass. I didn't mean to make this a political issue, I'm just responding to the comments in post #25.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David, I agree, unfortunately our politics are incredibly divisive these days, and seemingly getting even worse. I imagine that for most people, whichever way they lean, it's a terrible disappointment. But the politicians don't, for the most part, get the message.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by stargell1

Yes. Aaron is a well known racist.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/hank-...obama-critics/

Bravely spoken hiding behind a user name.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by stargell1

Yes. Aaron is a well known racist.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/hank-...obama-critics/

I don't think he's a racist, just a dumbass. Stupid comment? Yes. Racist? I don't think so, not to me anyway.

It's funny, but when you're white and criticize Obama's policies, you're demonized and branded as a racist just because he's black. When you're black (Harry Belafonte, Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Michael Steele, Allen West, the list goes on and on) and criticize Obama's policies, you're branded as an "Uncle Tom". So are black people who criticize (fill in name of white politician here) racist just because he's white? What do you call the same white people (who are called racist for criticizing Obama) that support other black politicians?

I didn't mean to get political, but the topic turned to Aaron's dumbass comment (even though I still consider him one of the greatest ever).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think he's a racist, just a dumbass. Stupid comment? Yes. Racist? I don't think so, not to me anyway.

It's funny, but when you're white and criticize Obama's policies, you're demonized and branded as a racist just because he's black. When you're black (Harry Belafonte, Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Michael Steele, Allen West, the list goes on and on) and criticize Obama's policies, you're branded as an "Uncle Tom". So are black people who criticize (fill in name of white politician here) racist just because he's white? What do you call the same white people (who are called racist for criticizing Obama) that support other black politicians?

I didn't mean to get political, but the topic turned to Aaron's dumbass comment (even though I still consider him one of the greatest ever).

Who is branding Obama's critics racist?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is branding Obama's critics racist?

Hank Aaron (many others have done it as well).

From the article...

"MLB Hall of Famer Hank Aaron recently likened President Obama‘s Republican critics to the KKK in 'neckties and starched shirts'."

In other words, he's saying if you criticize Obama, you're a racist. Right?

[begsu1013]

"in other words"

[glynparson]

I think it depends on how you criticize the President, those that can point to specific things they don't like have legitimate criticism. Those just saying they want their country back and he's ruined it tend to have an air of racism to their comments. There are still large swaths of this country with tremendous racial prejudices.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

There are still large swaths of this country with tremendous racial prejudices.

Very true, Glyn, but let's not pretend that only white people can be racists. There are racists in all races...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5S2E26BWoo