We just purchased a "FRESH" T206 Eddie Plank and are BUYING Vintage Cards! ***

[botn]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I guess you don't know the whole story then and the truth behind how they operate "behind the scenes". I am not alone in this, as I have received a PM from someone who was similarly abused by him.

And I wasn't referring to CU boards. The CU boards was like the Wild West. I get that. I was referring to postings on another board which I was not a member of and had no opportunity to defend myself. Posting people's personal information is NEVER cool! EVER! I don't know what made you think it was, but it isn't. Myself and my family did not appreciate it. That is where I have to draw the line.

Scott did the same thing to me, Robert. I did not even know him and out of the blue he attacked me on the CU board making unfounded and inaccurate allegations when he knew I could not defend myself because I was not on the board.

For a guy with his background of being the head graded for SGC for Joe Merkel during a time when SGC graded more altered cards than legit cards, he has a lot of nerve acting like a bully. By the way, for those who don't know those are the old label SGC graded cards which SGC will not honor their guaranty.

[JustCollectVP]

Greg, I believe that the post that you are referring to many years ago was were someone called you out about an eBay auction - I believe a card that was graded and you slammed PSA over their grade and the listing was a tirade because PSA didn't agree with your assessment of the material.

I recall that I noted that "the seller" played the bump game and that the bitter text in the auctions was probably more sour grapes than fact. I didn't know whether you were on CU or not, nor did I think that it mattered. If my facts are inaccurate, then I apologize. If they are correct, then I will stand by them.

With respect to SGC, I was a Senior Grader (1998-2000) and I was there during the end of the Merkle run. I was not the "Head Grader" as that responsibility fell upon Merkle and to a lesser extent, Grady, but I had no final say at what went out the door in a holder. Suffice it to say that there were cards that were put on the market that I would not have allowed in a holder.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Suffice it to say that there were cards that were put on the market that I would not have allowed in a holder.

And how did that happen? Incompetence? Favoritism?

And if you knew bad cards were making their way into the hobby, did you do anything to try to stop it?

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And how did that happen? Incompetence? Favoritism?

And if you knew bad cards were making their way into the hobby, did you do anything to try to stop it?

I have my opinion with respect to Merkle's performance. I voiced my concerns when I felt there was an issue, however I did not have much say during Merkle's tour of duty.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

I have my opinion with respect to Merkle's performance. I voiced my concerns when I felt there was an issue, however I did not have much say during Merkle's tour of duty.

So to my question, is it your opinion that he was just incompetent, or that he was knowingly grading bad cards? The result may be the same but the implications are different. Certainly Derek Grady was/is not incompetent based on everything I know.

Did you consider blowing the whistle on it instead of just going along?

[Joshwesley]

This escalated quickly

Insert Ron Burgundy gif

Lol

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Greg, I believe that the post that you are referring to many years ago was were someone called you out about an eBay auction - I believe a card that was graded and you slammed PSA over their grade and the listing was a tirade because PSA didn't agree with your assessment of the material.

I recall that I noted that "the seller" played the bump game and that the bitter text in the auctions was probably more sour grapes than fact. I didn't know whether you were on CU or not, nor did I think that it mattered. If my facts are inaccurate, then I apologize. If they are correct, then I will stand by them.

With respect to SGC, I was a Senior Grader (1998-2000) and I was there during the end of the Merkle run. I was not the "Head Grader" as that responsibility fell upon Merkle and to a lesser extent, Grady, but I had no final say at what went out the door in a holder. Suffice it to say that there were cards that were put on the market that I would not have allowed in a holder.

You wrote far more than I was a seller who played the bump game and you knew I could not post there because it was mentioned on the very short thread more than once. I also reached out to you via email once I was made aware of your irresponsible post about me also reiterating that I could not post and you not only did not reply but you went out of your way to again post on the thread that you were not going to reply to me and you stood by everything you wrote.

Those are some big eggs, dude. For a guy who now claims to have looked the other way while his boss shoved bad cards into holders I would say you might want to spend a bit more time checking yourself rather than attacking someone who you do not know in the slightest. My guess is that anyone who stays at that job for that long did more than look the other way. So if you were not the one who gave the green light to bad cards you at least lacked enough ethics to stay employed there and did nothing to stop it and nothing to inform the public.

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

You wrote far more than I was a seller who played the bump game and you knew I could not post there because it was mentioned on the very short thread more than once. I also reached out to you via email once I was made aware of your irresponsible post about me also reiterating that I could not post and you not only did not reply but you went out of your way to again post on the thread that you were not going to reply to me and you stood by everything you wrote.

Those are some big eggs, dude. For a guy who now claims to have looked the other way while his boss shoved bad cards into holders I would say you might want to spend a bit more time checking yourself rather than attacking someone who you do not know in the slightest. My guess is that anyone who stays at that job for that long did more than look the other way. So if you were not the one who gave the green light to bad cards you at least lacked enough ethics to stay employed there and did nothing to stop it and nothing to inform the public.

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

Greg, I'm going to make this quite clear. You are WRONG! Your assumptions and your allegations are WRONG! Point a finger all you want, but count how many point back at you.

[JustCollectVP]

Actually, I found the thread and I also mentioned that you altered cards (which was second hand information - and if incorrect, my apologies as I certainly should've vetted such before posting it).

It was actually blasting SGC, not PSA.

Here is the thread: https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=774262

Again, I'm not trying to hide and I'll take ownership of my words.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Actually, I found the thread and I also mentioned that you altered cards (which was second hand information - and if incorrect, my apologies as I certainly should've vetted such before posting it).

It was actually blasting SGC, not PSA.

Here is the thread: https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=774262

Again, I'm not trying to hide and I'll take ownership of my words.

Yes you should have vetted your source before making the post. Your post indicates you have first hand info. No clue who your source was but it was entirely irresponsible to post that I personally alter cards lacking evidence which neither you nor your source could possibly have.

Getting bumps and playing that game which virtually everyone does, does not mean someone is altering cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Before this deteriorates any further can we stick for a second to the big story line here at least from my perspective? An SGC grader comes on the board and tells us that for a period of time, in his opinion, SGC was putting bad cards into the marketplace. That to me is a big deal, and I would like to know more about it and in particular the OP's perspective on how this happened and why.

[bobbyw8469]

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

Nor I. I am sure others feel the same way, but just don't wish to get involved or speak out, lest they get attacked as well.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

I didn't know whether you were on CU or not, nor did I think that it mattered.

Now that you have posted the CU thread are you lying now when you say you did not know whether or not I was on CU? Course you knew...If you read the thread enough to post about me then you should have read that I was tossed off the board a few posts before your first post. Obviously you wanted to play bully and beat up on someone who could not defend themselves which is why you were too much of a coward to reply to my email.

But enough about me. I am not the one coming on the board trying to convince people to trust them. Seems you have a past, maybe a present, which you need to explain. You come off as not very genuine now and clearly have at least a past which demonstrated a real lack of ethics and you seem to be avoiding discussing that. Typing WRONG! in response to my statements and ignoring Peter's questions may be insufficient.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

Now that you have posted the CU thread are you lying now when you say you did not know whether or not I was on CU? Course you knew...If you read the thread enough to post about me then you should have read that I was tossed off the board a few posts before your first post. Obviously you wanted to play bully and beat up on someone who could not defend themselves which is why you were too much of a coward to reply to my email.

But enough about me. I am not the one coming on the board trying to convince people to trust them. Seems you have a past, maybe a present, which you need to explain. You come off as not very genuine now and clearly have at least a past which demonstrated a real lack of ethics and you seem to be avoiding discussing that. Typing WRONG! in response to my statements and ignoring Peter's questions may be insufficient.

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

Scott, YOU volunteered the information about SGC, and offered a Nuremberg type defense in response to Greg, and I merely asked follow up factual questions hoping to elicit more information. I have not said a word against you to this point. Obviously if you don't want to answer I can't make you, and we can form our own judgments. To me, coming as it did from an SGC grader, it was a big deal, the first such direct admission of its kind I am aware of, and more concrete than the shop talk and speculation with which we are all too familiar.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

I emailed you after your first post and told you I was not "litigator". Why would I email you directly to address your very disparaging post about me if I were able to defend myself there? You are full of it. And 6 years ago or not, you were incredibly reckless.

I have not said anything about the company who employs you now but your refusal to speak about the fraud which took place while you were a senior grader at SGC for several years other than to absolve yourself of any wrong doing or responsibility speaks volumes to the person you are today.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

I emailed you after your first post and told you I was not "litigator". Why would I email you directly to address your very disparaging post about me if I were able to defend myself there? You are full of it. And 6 years ago or not, you were incredibly reckless.

I have not said anything about the company who employs you now but your refusal to speak about the fraud which took place while you were a senior grader at SGC for several years other than to absolve yourself of any wrong doing or responsibility speaks volumes to the person you are today.

Fraud is a word that you have used, not I.

I am through with this area of discussion.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Fraud is a word that you have used, not I.

I am through with this area of discussion.

SGC will not honor their guaranty for cards graded during a time in which you were a senior grader-- a time where by your own admission, SGC holdered bad cards. If it is not fraud then what is it? You continued to work there knowing bad cards were being holdered. You did nothing with this information and continue to dismiss yourself from what took place. Of course that seems to be ok with you because bad cards from all grading services get holdered. You have a convenient explanation for everything.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by botn

Scott did the same thing to me, Robert. I did not even know him and out of the blue he attacked me on the CU board making unfounded and inaccurate allegations when he knew I could not defend myself because I was not on the board.

For a guy with his background of being the head graded for SGC for Joe Merkel during a time when SGC graded more altered cards than legit cards, he has a lot of nerve acting like a bully. By the way, for those who don't know those are the old label SGC graded cards which SGC will not honor their guaranty.

+1 Greg. For someone in that high of a position to act that way is baffling to me. Unethical and unprofessional. No excuse for that kind of behavior.