Why is Jackie Robinson in the HOF?

[Dewey]

Love this forum. Phenomenal post stache.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm not sure Anthony was suggesting there was any argument Clemente should not be in the HOF based on his playing field accomplishments. Perhaps what he meant was that, like Jackie our perception of his greatness is further enhanced by externalities, in Clemente's case being the first great Hispanic major leaguer, and/or his premature death. For example, most people I think would immediately agree that Clemente was in the top 20 or 25 all time greats, but Bill James based purely on stats has him in the 70s.

Then again maybe Anthony has no clue.

[Enfuego]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not sure Anthony was suggesting there was any argument Clemente should not be in the HOF based on his playing field accomplishments. Perhaps what he meant was that, like Jackie our perception of his greatness is further enhanced by externalities, in Clemente's case being the first great Hispanic major leaguer, and/or his premature death. For example, most people I think would immediately agree that Clemente was in the top 20 or 25 all time greats, but Bill James based purely on stats has him in the 70s.

Then again maybe Anthony has no clue.

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Enfuego

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

Oxygen sucker? How polite and how stupid...I don't give a damn what you think about Clemente's off field accomplishments as being a big reason for HOF. They were tremendous attributes that he had, no doubt. He was a HOFer regardless of that based upon his value as a player...What exactly are you saying? That the HOF committee took in to account Clemente's off field achievements and the plane crash when they elected him? I'm just simply trying to understand what you are saying...Robinson as well??

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Enfuego

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

I would love to chat with Bill James about Clemente being only in the top 70's, that's just idiotic....This guy won 4 batting crowns in 6 years, and had the best arm in the game...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I would love to chat with Bill James about Clemente being only in the top 70's, that's just idiotic....This guy won 4 batting crowns in 6 years, and had the best arm in the game...

Bill Madlock won 4 batting titles.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill Madlock won 4 batting titles.

Agree Peter, but could he even compare to Clemente? Not even close....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Agree Peter, but could he even compare to Clemente? Not even close....

No of course not.

[CMIZ5290]

OK, lets try this with the board. Pertaining Outfielder's, other than Ruth, Aaron, Mays, T. Williams, and Mantle, maybe a drug free Bonds, who would you rate higher than Clemente? Also, of these five who would you put Clemente over?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

OK, lets try this with the board. Pertaining Outfielder's, other than Ruth, Aaron, Mays, T. Williams, and Mantle, maybe a drug free Bonds, who would you rate higher than Clemente? Also, of these five who would you put Clemente over?

This site ranks him 61. http://www.stevetheump.com/top_players.htm


I would probably rate Cobb higher. Maybe Ott and Henderson. Frank Robinson. Speaker. Griffey. DiMaggio. Musial.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This site ranks him 61. http://www.stevetheump.com/top_players.htm


I would probably rate Cobb higher. Maybe Ott and Henderson. Frank Robinson. Speaker. Griffey.

OMG, lights out on this thread....Ott, Henderson, Speaker over Clemente?? I know when I'm whipped...Good night

[Marckus99]

Of course Jackie belongs in the HOF....and so does his wife too, right?
Hell #42 has been retired, how about #1947 as well.

Actually we should make 4/15 a national holiday as well.
Let's start a religion as well, I mean he did suffer as much as Jesus.
Correct?

Because no one else in the history of baseball suffered as much as poor Jackie.
None of the Latin ball players from the 1910s or 1920s or 1930s suffered at all.....right?

We know what this is about, let's not be so naive.

- Mark

[Dewey]

Now I know how Bill Murray felt in Groundhog Day.

[bdk1976]

censored

[Leon]

To me trolls aren't known, he is known and you aren't (publicly). If you want to make that comment your name needs to be by your post. That goes for everyone in this thread and on the board. I see a few comments in this thread that need their name by them. Either the member can edit out their comment, put their full name next to it, or I will help.

This is at the top of each page for a reason and folks can take it to include snarky comments too.

If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post.

Make comments all you want to, but put your name next to your post. And don't follow members around the board making snarky comments. If you do it too often you will no longer be here.

I am with Brendan (post #47) with my thoughts on the question. I think it is a good question and a good debate in an open forum. Why not talk about it?

Originally Posted by bdk1976

This thread is obviously a trolling attempt (that's working).

1) Jackie Robinson is a HOF-caliber player
2) There are plenty of players who don't belong in the HOF - Jackie is not one of them
3) I think the color-barrier issue should (and does) cement his legitimacy in the HOF if he was borderline (he isn't - I can put together a lot of names in the HOF that are 'borderline' - or lower - and he wouldn't be on it)
4) I do think it's important to remember history and his contributions to baseball and our country.
5) I also think some of the Jackie-worship these days is becoming borderline over the top
6) On a somewhat related note, I think #3 should be retired by the MLB and Marvin Miller should be in the HOF.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by Leon

To me trolls aren't known, he is known and you aren't (publicly). If you want to make that comment your name needs to be by your post. That goes for everyone in this thread and on the board. I see a few comments in this thread that need their name by them. Either the member can edit out their comment, put their full name next to it, or I will help.

This is at the top of each page for a reason and folks can take it to include snarky comments too.

If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post.

Make comments all you want to, but put your name next to your post. And don't follow members around the board making snarky comments. If you do it too often you will no longer be here.

I am with Brendan (post #47) with my thoughts on the question. I think it is a good question and a good debate in an open forum. Why not talk about it?

Not sure why you quoted me and singled me out, but I've edited my post out so it hopefully meets your rules. Also not sure about the comment about following people around making snarky comments - please show me where I have been doing this and I'll gladly delete those too.

[sago]

Slightly O/T. Henderson is a tough one. If I was to put together my all-time best team, versus my all-time best lineup, I would include Henderson in the latter, but not the former.

Undeniably, the greatest leadoff hitter of all-time. Is he the best left fielder of all time? I would say no; that would have to be Ted Williams.

[sago]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

We know what this is about, let's not be so naive.

- Mark

I think you made it perfectly clear what you think it is all about.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

Of course Jackie belongs in the HOF....and so does his wife too, right?
Hell #42 has been retired, how about #1947 as well.

Actually we should make 4/15 a national holiday as well.
Let's start a religion as well, I mean he did suffer as much as Jesus.
Correct?

Because no one else in the history of baseball suffered as much as poor Jackie.
None of the Latin ball players from the 1910s or 1920s or 1930s suffered at all.....right?

We know what this is about, let's not be so naive.

- Mark

I really hope my sarcasm detector is broken beyond repair. The alternative is that you're every bit as despicable as your post suggests.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

Of course Jackie belongs in the HOF....and so does his wife too, right?
Hell #42 has been retired, how about #1947 as well.

Actually we should make 4/15 a national holiday as well.
Let's start a religion as well, I mean he did suffer as much as Jesus.
Correct?

Because no one else in the history of baseball suffered as much as poor Jackie.
None of the Latin ball players from the 1910s or 1920s or 1930s suffered at all.....right?

We know what this is about, let's not be so naive.

- Mark

Originally Posted by Marckus99

No contest - Cobb all the way.

10 million 54T cards made...
BTW, Hank Aaron, very overrated player.

You're on a roll.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

Of course Jackie belongs in the HOF....and so does his wife too, right?
Hell #42 has been retired, how about #1947 as well.

Actually we should make 4/15 a national holiday as well.
Let's start a religion as well, I mean he did suffer as much as Jesus.
Correct?

Because no one else in the history of baseball suffered as much as poor Jackie.
None of the Latin ball players from the 1910s or 1920s or 1930s suffered at all.....right?

We know what this is about, let's not be so naive.

- Mark

What? Political correctness? I thought that notion was put to bed when it was noted that Robinson was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1962. I can tell you that I was growing up in the South in 1962 and political correctness was the furthest thing from anyone's mind.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

Let's start a religion as well, I mean he did suffer as much as Jesus.
Correct?

It's unfair to compare Jesus to Jackie. First, they existed in different eras. And Jesus never had to deal with bean balls and being called a "N" by Ben Chapman. Just wondering, but could Jesus hit a 98 mph fastball?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pclpads

It's unfair to compare Jesus to Jackie. First, they existed in different eras. And Jesus never had to deal with bean balls and being called a "N" by Ben Chapman. Just wondering, but could Jesus hit a 98 mph fastball?

If he could walk on water, then probably.

[Cmount76]

I think the overwhelming (and obvious) consensus is that Jackie is without question a HoFer.

So now what!?!?!

Show what ya got!!

[ajquigs]

Originally Posted by Cmount76

I think the overwhelming (and obvious) consensus is that Jackie is without question a HoFer.

So now what!?!?!

Show what ya got!!

A welcome suggestion.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by pclpads

It's unfair to compare Jesus to Jackie. First, they existed in different eras. And Jesus never had to deal with bean balls and being called a "N" by Ben Chapman. Just wondering, but could Jesus hit a 98 mph fastball?

Go find the SNL skit featuring Jesus as a teenager