Why is Jackie Robinson in the HOF?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm not sure Anthony was suggesting there was any argument Clemente should not be in the HOF based on his playing field accomplishments. Perhaps what he meant was that, like Jackie our perception of his greatness is further enhanced by externalities, in Clemente's case being the first great Hispanic major leaguer, and/or his premature death. For example, most people I think would immediately agree that Clemente was in the top 20 or 25 all time greats, but Bill James based purely on stats has him in the 70s.

Then again maybe Anthony has no clue.

[Enfuego]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not sure Anthony was suggesting there was any argument Clemente should not be in the HOF based on his playing field accomplishments. Perhaps what he meant was that, like Jackie our perception of his greatness is further enhanced by externalities, in Clemente's case being the first great Hispanic major leaguer, and/or his premature death. For example, most people I think would immediately agree that Clemente was in the top 20 or 25 all time greats, but Bill James based purely on stats has him in the 70s.

Then again maybe Anthony has no clue.

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Enfuego

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

Oxygen sucker? How polite and how stupid...I don't give a damn what you think about Clemente's off field accomplishments as being a big reason for HOF. They were tremendous attributes that he had, no doubt. He was a HOFer regardless of that based upon his value as a player...What exactly are you saying? That the HOF committee took in to account Clemente's off field achievements and the plane crash when they elected him? I'm just simply trying to understand what you are saying...Robinson as well??

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Enfuego

You basically nailed it. Whoever this MIZE Character is, needs to read between the lines before opening his oxygen sucker. A lot of players today get into the HOF solely because of stats, accomplishments and records. Jackie and Roberto were acknowledged for their careers AND their contributions off the field.

I would love to chat with Bill James about Clemente being only in the top 70's, that's just idiotic....This guy won 4 batting crowns in 6 years, and had the best arm in the game...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I would love to chat with Bill James about Clemente being only in the top 70's, that's just idiotic....This guy won 4 batting crowns in 6 years, and had the best arm in the game...

Bill Madlock won 4 batting titles.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill Madlock won 4 batting titles.

Agree Peter, but could he even compare to Clemente? Not even close....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Agree Peter, but could he even compare to Clemente? Not even close....

No of course not.

[CMIZ5290]

I'm sorry, my feelings are getting the best of me and I was hoping that some other members would come to my rescue. I think Clemente is one of the best players of all time (top 10). When you factor in his defense (12 straight gold gloves), best arm in the game, along with his bat, I think it's hard to argue. He seems to get too much praise for great deeds he did off the field, and that maybe hurts him in the stats world. Great topic, let's move on....

[CMIZ5290]

OK, lets try this with the board. Pertaining Outfielder's, other than Ruth, Aaron, Mays, T. Williams, and Mantle, maybe a drug free Bonds, who would you rate higher than Clemente? Also, of these five who would you put Clemente over?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

OK, lets try this with the board. Pertaining Outfielder's, other than Ruth, Aaron, Mays, T. Williams, and Mantle, maybe a drug free Bonds, who would you rate higher than Clemente? Also, of these five who would you put Clemente over?

This site ranks him 61. http://www.stevetheump.com/top_players.htm


I would probably rate Cobb higher. Maybe Ott and Henderson. Frank Robinson. Speaker. Griffey. DiMaggio. Musial.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This site ranks him 61. http://www.stevetheump.com/top_players.htm


I would probably rate Cobb higher. Maybe Ott and Henderson. Frank Robinson. Speaker. Griffey.

OMG, lights out on this thread....Ott, Henderson, Speaker over Clemente?? I know when I'm whipped...Good night

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

OMG, lights out on this thread....Ott, Henderson, Speaker over Clemente?? I know when I'm whipped...Good night

Henderson is arguably top 25. Speaker is arguably top 10. Ott, not so high, but his numbers look very good.