Should for sale listings be allowed in the b/s/t without prices

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I say post them up. I get more information about the market and my hobby by learning of the existence of these cards. I'm for more information, not less.

How does a "list a price" rule diminish the "increasing number of blowhards, that have no intention of ever selling a card, just posting pics of cards in the for sale forum [with an unreasonable] price.....just to post them up?"

What's next? "Only prices within 5% of the most recent sale price for a card on ebay may be asked on a card in the B/S/T?"

Blowhards with no intent of selling cards are a part of our hobby lore. The best way to deal with them is to ignore them.

I appreciate the input. However, I feel like you as well as some of the others have interpreted this entre discussion as a "there should be changes made to the B/S/T forum" and that "We don't need a bunch of rules" in the B/S/T forum. I've never recommended or suggested such, as this isn't my website and I have zero input. I wasn't asking or suggesting anything be changed...as I merely brought up the original discussion and wanted to know the philosophy of why someone would choose to post something for sale, and then deliberately not provide a price......often times, even after being asked. (As in what are their true intentions?) Moreso to share with the community that the majority believes them to be "shady", and/or dishonest, with something to hide. Nothing more...and nothing less.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Filthy

I appreciate the input. However, I feel like you as well as some of the others have interpreted this entre discussion as a "there should be changes made to the B/S/T forum" and that "We don't need a bunch of rules" in the B/S/T forum. I've never recommended or suggested such, as this isn't my website and I have zero input. I wasn't asking or suggesting anything be changed...as I merely brought up the original discussion and wanted to know the philosophy of why someone would choose to post something for sale, and then deliberately not provide a price......often times, even after being asked. (As in what are their true intentions?) Moreso to share with the community that the majority believes them to be "shady", and/or dishonest, with something to hide. Nothing more...and nothing less.

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

When I post a card asking for offers, its because I don't know what the heck I got or how much someone would give me for that card.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

[Leon]

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

Originally Posted by Filthy

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

Leon, can you please put that in your signature block so that we can at least consider it when buying cards from you

I use make an offer when I don't have a clue what the value of my cards is. Nothing wrong with people selling stuff the way they want to sell it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

I did see you shill bidding your own auction in the BST area. This is meant to be funny and not taken serious.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

I think we have all agreed in these discussions, that it would be "open to interpretation" as to what your true intentions were. And it would be unfair to cast judgment upon you, nor would it be fair to paint the picture that you are one in the same.

But at the most basic level, it is still a lack of transparency. And in any other arena of commerce, in the buying, selling, or trading of any type of goods, lack of transparency when presenting something for sale, is seen as being dishonest.

[bobbyw8469]

That's one of the nuttiest statements I have ever read on this board.

Consider the source.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Filthy

... in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.





.

That's one of the nuttiest statements I have ever read on this board.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

That's one of the nuttiest statements I have ever read on this board.

Do you have any intelligent input, as to how you see it differently? As in I'm open to differing opinion, however over the past few days...those who also seem to be in agreement to your side of this "conversation/argument/discussion" have also just popped in with quick/hateful one liners without much other productive thoughts/opinions, as to why.

.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Filthy

Do you have any intelligent input, as to how you see it differently?

Card doctoring, shill bidding, and selling fakes or reprints as originals are all examples of fraud. A guy taking bids on a card is not.

[bnorth]

The one thing this poll did show is you can list your item(s) how ever you want but you WILL get a MUCH larger group of potential buyers with prices listed.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Card doctoring, shill bidding, and selling fakes or reprints as originals are all examples of fraud. A guy taking bids on a card is not.

I don't disagree with you on that. You and Leon both took the broad stroke of my comment, and ran with it. I do think, that there is a significant difference of severity between the two. Much like, while driving, I have run a red light before...and I have driven over the speed limit...ALOT. I'm not a murderer nor a rapist, nor have I ever robbed a store at gunpoint...but at the end of the day those silly traffic offenses that no one really cares about, at the "most basic level" are still technically just as much against the law, as those more serious offenses. <--- Please don't run with this now, and interpret that I am saying that not posting a price is the same as breaking the law.



http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220632


I have posted the original thread above, of you wanted to bore yourselves with the details, but the original discussion was genuinely wanting to know what legitimate reasons were for someone posting something for sale...yet deliberately not publishing a price. Nothing more.....Nothing less. Yet it has turned into a poll, and a somewhat combative conversation.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Filthy

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

I thought, based on the discussion, that it would make for an interesting poll question. I have made my opinion clear, but I certainly wouldn't compare those who lists cards without prices to those committing fraud in our hobby.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I thought, based on the discussion, that it would make for an interesting poll question. I have made my opinion clear, but I certainly wouldn't compare those who lists cards without prices to those committing fraud in our hobby.

Thank you for at least that....

[frankbmd]

I think the argument here can be summarized as follows:


An Ebola outbreak close by or a "dirty" bomb in your city is the moral equivalent of listing a card in BST without a price.


I don't think so, but that's just me. A corollary observation is that:


An Ebola outbreak creates strange bedfellows.