Should for sale listings be allowed in the b/s/t without prices

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

A vote for "No" will only have the effect of limiting exposure to cards that may be potentially for sale.

This is also part of the issue at hand. "May be" or "potentially" for sale. Why is it maybe or potentially.? If it is actually for sale..then there is no middle ground. It is either for sale.......or it isn't. If its not for sale....than it has no business posted in a for sale forum in the first place. If it's for sale.....what's the price?

I'd rather know what's potentially and actually in the market.

There's that "potential" word again. If its being posted in a for sale forum....it is "on the market." Am I missing something there? There seems to be an ever increasing number of blowhards, that have no intention of ever selling a card, just posting pics of cards in the for sale forum without a price.....just to post them up.


I'm definitely not talking about you specifically by any means, but you have been the only one to be willing to have an intelligent conversation about said subject. And it seems as if those that are well in favor of "not posting" a price, are much less willing to verbalize their reasons as to why. Yet, when they do...it is typically filled with half truths, and/or double speak......"may be potentially, probably might be, could possibly" type statements, that are typically seen as ways of directly inadvertently yet indirectly avoiding a direct response.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Filthy

There seems to be an ever increasing number of blowhards, that have no intention of ever selling a card, just posting pics of cards in the for sale forum without a price.....just to post them up.

I say post them up. I get more information about the market and my hobby by learning of the existence of these cards. I'm for more information, not less.

How does a "list a price" rule diminish the "increasing number of blowhards, that have no intention of ever selling a card, just posting pics of cards in the for sale forum [with an unreasonable] price.....just to post them up?"

What's next? "Only prices within 5% of the most recent sale price for a card on ebay may be asked on a card in the B/S/T?"

Blowhards with no intent of selling cards are a part of our hobby lore. The best way to deal with them is to ignore them.

[frankbmd]

Hypothetical Question

Imagine that you are the supreme leader of BST and you have the authority to set it up anyway you want, so that it meets your needs and desires. In other words a perfect BST in your opinion.

Do you really think, if that were the case, that there would be any more of a consensus for your BST verses the current BST?

You are free to participate in the current format and do your thing the way you do your thing. There are very few restrictions imposed on you. The fees are reasonable and lots of deals get done. It seems to work for the vast majority of us, even though each of us would probably tweek it in some way if we were the supreme leader. I really think the bulk of this discussion is "Much Ado About Nothing", to coin a phrase.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Hypothetical Question

Imagine that you are the supreme leader of BST and you have the authority to set it up anyway you want, so that it meets your needs and desires. In other words a perfect BST in your opinion.

Do you really think, if that were the case, that there would be any more of a consensus for your BST verses the current BST?

I know that if I set it up my way the consensus would be overwhelmingly to not use it.

I'd want first crack at stuff for maybe 10% ----cause I'm cheap.
(Ok, not actually that cheap)

Steve B

[steve B]

I voted for yes, but it's a thing that can work both ways. Another hobby group I'm in requires price and pictures for all for sale listings. The real positive there is that there's no confusion about what you're getting, and it's really easy to simply ignore listings if the price seems too high.

As far as anything that is maybe for sale.
My whole collection with maybe a handful of exceptions is "maybe" for sale. And at the same time "not for sale"

Feel free to make absurdly high offers either cash or trade for pretty much anything in my collection. The crazier you are the more likely I'll say yes!


Steve B

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I say post them up. I get more information about the market and my hobby by learning of the existence of these cards. I'm for more information, not less.

How does a "list a price" rule diminish the "increasing number of blowhards, that have no intention of ever selling a card, just posting pics of cards in the for sale forum [with an unreasonable] price.....just to post them up?"

What's next? "Only prices within 5% of the most recent sale price for a card on ebay may be asked on a card in the B/S/T?"

Blowhards with no intent of selling cards are a part of our hobby lore. The best way to deal with them is to ignore them.

I appreciate the input. However, I feel like you as well as some of the others have interpreted this entre discussion as a "there should be changes made to the B/S/T forum" and that "We don't need a bunch of rules" in the B/S/T forum. I've never recommended or suggested such, as this isn't my website and I have zero input. I wasn't asking or suggesting anything be changed...as I merely brought up the original discussion and wanted to know the philosophy of why someone would choose to post something for sale, and then deliberately not provide a price......often times, even after being asked. (As in what are their true intentions?) Moreso to share with the community that the majority believes them to be "shady", and/or dishonest, with something to hide. Nothing more...and nothing less.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Filthy

I appreciate the input. However, I feel like you as well as some of the others have interpreted this entre discussion as a "there should be changes made to the B/S/T forum" and that "We don't need a bunch of rules" in the B/S/T forum. I've never recommended or suggested such, as this isn't my website and I have zero input. I wasn't asking or suggesting anything be changed...as I merely brought up the original discussion and wanted to know the philosophy of why someone would choose to post something for sale, and then deliberately not provide a price......often times, even after being asked. (As in what are their true intentions?) Moreso to share with the community that the majority believes them to be "shady", and/or dishonest, with something to hide. Nothing more...and nothing less.

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

When I post a card asking for offers, its because I don't know what the heck I got or how much someone would give me for that card.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So if I post a card asking for offers, I'm shady, dishonest, and I have something to hide? With all of the troubles surrounding our great hobby these days, I think you're aiming in the wrong direction.

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

[Leon]

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

Originally Posted by Filthy

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

Leon, can you please put that in your signature block so that we can at least consider it when buying cards from you

I use make an offer when I don't have a clue what the value of my cards is. Nothing wrong with people selling stuff the way they want to sell it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

I did see you shill bidding your own auction in the BST area. This is meant to be funny and not taken serious.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have used the "make me an offer" type thread in the BST areas before. So that makes me the same as shill bidders or someone who fraudulently sells fakes and reprints? Dang....

I think we have all agreed in these discussions, that it would be "open to interpretation" as to what your true intentions were. And it would be unfair to cast judgment upon you, nor would it be fair to paint the picture that you are one in the same.

But at the most basic level, it is still a lack of transparency. And in any other arena of commerce, in the buying, selling, or trading of any type of goods, lack of transparency when presenting something for sale, is seen as being dishonest.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Filthy

... in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.





.

That's one of the nuttiest statements I have ever read on this board.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

That's one of the nuttiest statements I have ever read on this board.

Do you have any intelligent input, as to how you see it differently? As in I'm open to differing opinion, however over the past few days...those who also seem to be in agreement to your side of this "conversation/argument/discussion" have also just popped in with quick/hateful one liners without much other productive thoughts/opinions, as to why.

.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Filthy

I apologize, as this "poll"/thread was a spin off of a completely different thread, posted yesterday. It went 4+ pages, before we realized it should have been a "poll." The thought process behind my comment was introduced and discussed in detail in a very non confrontational way in the first thread. However, seeing my comment as a stand alone opinion in this thread, it definitely comes off quite a bit different.

And within that thread, in great detail....it was a general opinion, that there were all sorts of reasons someone might post a card as "Make an Offer." But all of those reasons, and their 15,000 scenarios could all boil down to fit into 2 categories...

1. Seller genuinely doesn't know what the card might be worth, or what the current market is.
2. Seller is being dishonest, and/or trying toppull one over on a potential buyer.

- So, by no means, am I putting any seller into any category. I'll let the buyers of this great site have their own opinion on that. However, I will say that I find it somewhat tough to believe if someone were buying and selling sports cards, in the $200+ or even $3,000+ price range that they are doing so without much knowledge of the market. (So, Ill let you categorize those folks into whichever of those 2 above categories, as you so choose.)

And, I am in no means, "aiming" at anyone, by simply discussing the issue at hand. But if you must know, in my eyes, those who post FS items, and refuse to post a price, are seen by me no differently than those "collectors" who manipulate auctions, shill bid auctions, offer fakes, and or forgeries as authentic goods. It's all the same to me. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference in severity, but at the very root of the issue, they're all the same.....its a lack of transparency/honesty/integrity.


.

I thought, based on the discussion, that it would make for an interesting poll question. I have made my opinion clear, but I certainly wouldn't compare those who lists cards without prices to those committing fraud in our hobby.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I thought, based on the discussion, that it would make for an interesting poll question. I have made my opinion clear, but I certainly wouldn't compare those who lists cards without prices to those committing fraud in our hobby.

Thank you for at least that....

[Leon]

You had me going till this....

Originally Posted by Filthy

Yet, when they do...it is typically filled with half truths, and/or double speak......"may be potentially, probably might be, could possibly" type statements, that are typically seen as ways of directly inadvertently yet indirectly avoiding a direct response.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Filthy

Yet, when they do...it is typically filled with half truths, and/or double speak......"may be potentially, probably might be, could possibly" type statements, that are typically seen as ways of directly inadvertently yet indirectly avoiding a direct response

Originally Posted by Leon

You had me going till this....

"Double speak, and half truths." You know...when you ask someone a very direct yes or no question, and they hem-haw around give you a long winded 5 minute long explanation of everything under the sun, and still never answer the question.

Sorry, maybe I'm Old School, but the way I was raised was that if you ask a grown man a very direct "Yes or No" question...and he can't look you directly in the eye and can't give you an answer...and instead exerts a large amount of effort trying to "convince" you to "see things his way," then that is a dishonest man.

[drmondobueno]

I have yet to buy a card on BST without a price, either on a card, or a group of cards, but appreciate the offer, or what appears to be an offer, on the board. Like to see activity on BST, period. Comments can be interesting and informative, too.

If it bothers you, too bad, so sad, not your card, not your board. Sure as hell ain't mine so I worry about other things. Like breathing.

Just sayin.

[Leon]

I get what you were saying and I agree. It's a pet peeve of mine when someone won't just say yes or no. I am in agreement. It was only the verbiage you used which made me more smile than anything else..
"that are typically seen as ways of directly inadvertently yet indirectly avoiding a direct response"


This all being said it's an interesting topic.

Originally Posted by Filthy

Originally Posted by Filthy

"Double speak, and half truths." You know...when you ask someone a very direct yes or no question, and they hem-haw around give you a long winded 5 minute long explanation of everything under the sun, and still never answer the question.

Sorry, maybe I'm Old School, but the way I was raised was that if you ask a grown man a very direct "Yes or No" question...and he can't look you directly in the eye and can't give you an answer...and instead exerts a large amount of effort trying to "convince" you to "see things his way," then that is a dishonest man.