"Lucky 7" find - Cobb with Cobb back

[tedzan]

We had a interesting and spirited discussion on this subject 7 years ago. Check-out this thread (dated 1-26-2009).."Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate"
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=92026

If you don't have the time to read thru this very informative thread, then I'll save you the trouble by this excerpting this Post (#89) in it......

These Feb and Mar 1910 Newspaper clippings cinched for me....these dates fall within the T206 rubric....this Cobb card is indeed the 525th card in the T206 set.

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Shawn

I am not sure what the article below is about, because I do not have a subscription to the site... I sure would like to read it though! I have noticed that the "Ty Cobb" brand advertisements are prodominately in the "Macon Weekly Telegraph" paper in Ga. The months seem to be Feb. and Mar. of 1910. If someone has a subscription to genealogybank.com, it would be nice to see some of the full adds. (there seems to be some full page adds)


"Macon Weekly Telegraph" 1910

TED Z
.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by tedzan

These Feb and Mar 1910 Newspaper clippings cinched for me....these dates fall within the T206 rubric....this Cobb card is indeed the 525th card in the T206 set.
.

As stated earlier, unless the front of the Cobb (Red Portrait)/Ty Cobb back is different from the Cobb (Red Portrait) of every other back, then it would not be #525.

[tedzan]

Erick

I'm not sure what you are saying....do you think this Cobb is, or is not part of the T206 family ?

And, if not then please clarify ?


TED

[packs]

It is not. Then you'd have to count all the T213-1s and the T215-1s. They have the same fronts as well. It is not a new card. The checklist is not broken down by backs, it's broken down by fronts.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by packs

It is not. Then you'd have to count all the T213-1s and the T215-1s. They have the same fronts as well. It is not a new card. The checklist is not broken down by backs, it's broken down by fronts.

Interesting that you say this....since I do indeed consider the 1910 COUPON cards as part of the T206 family.

Furthermore, although I feel ambivalent regarding the T215-1 cards (since some of them were issued in 1912), I could see how they also fit within the T206 rubric.


TED Z
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[Pat R]

The only tin found so far that has a stamp on it is dated 1912.


http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...preview/2.html

[packs]

I think it can be considered part of the family but you said it was an addition to the checklist, bringing the cards to 525 total. I don't agree with that because it's not a new card and the checklist isn't developed with backs in mind.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The only tin found so far that has a stamp on it is dated 1912.


http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...preview/2.html

Show me where on this Tin a "1912" date is printed ?

As you said....the 1912 date is from the tax stamp on it. Which does NOT
tell us when this Cobb tobacco or this Cobb card was marketed.

Please check-out Post #81 here, where the early Spring 1910 Newspaper
clippings clearly tell us when these Cobb cards were in circulation.


TED Z
.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Erick

I'm not sure what you are saying....do you think this Cobb is, or is not part of the T206 family ?

And, if not then please clarify ?


TED

Originally Posted by packs

It is not. Then you'd have to count all the T213-1s and the T215-1s. They have the same fronts as well. It is not a new card. The checklist is not broken down by backs, it's broken down by fronts.

Then Mr. Barker was Wrong!?
In his American Card Catalog His Lists "Ty Cobb" as 1 of the Backs included in the T206 Set...

The T213-1 and T215-15 He Also Labeled as their OWN Designated Group!

So, "Would You Please Explain "Why" You Guys Know Bettar then the Man Who Wrote the Book!"

I Truly Love You Guyz...
Yet I have Always been a Truest in the Hobby.
Mr. Barker is an Icon!!!

Sorta Like Mr. Jobs, Paul Allen and Bill Gates!

I do Understand the idea that there weren't many "Ty Cobb Backs" Back in the Day. However, That didn't Stop Mr. Barker From adding them to the Set!

Personally ~ I Don't Like it either. But Truth is Truth!!!

Patiently Awaiting Your Replies...

Ohhh and I Would Love ta Know who deemed the T206 Set to Have ONLY 524 Cards in it? According ta Mr. Barker he can't add...

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Erick

I'm not sure what you are saying....do you think this Cobb is, or is not part of the T206 family ?

And, if not then please clarify ?


TED

the 524 is based on the front... not the back. This is "just another" Cobb Red Portrait.

[tedzan]

This Cobb was printed and issued within the time frame of the printing of the 350 series T206's.....circa early Spring 1910.

It's caption is printed with BROWN ink. The Factory #33 identified on it's back is the Reidsville, NC. The ATC factory where
the Ty Cobb Tobacco was produced.

There is nothing on this White-Bordered tobacco card that prevents it from being a T206.

Hey, there are 5 cards of Hal Chase in the T206 set, so why not 5 cards of Ty Cobb.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This Cobb was printed and issued within the time frame of the printing of the 350 series T206's.....circa early Spring 1910.

It's caption is printed with BROWN ink. The Factory #33 identified on it's back is the Reidsville, NC. The ATC factory where
the Ty Cobb Tobacco was produced.

There is nothing on this White-Bordered tobacco card that prevents it from being a T206.

Hey, there are 5 cards of Hal Chase in the T206 set, so why not 5 cards of Ty Cobb.


TED Z
.

Ted,

You're missing the point that Erick and "packs" are making.
This wouldn't be a 5th Cobb, the Cobb (red portrait) already
exists in the 524 card checklist.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Ted,

You're missing the point that Erick and "packs" are making.
This wouldn't be a 5th Cobb, the Cobb (red portrait) already
exists in the 524 card checklist.

Don't insult my intelligence !

I fully understand what they were driving at.

I stated that I consider this Cobb card the 525th card in the T206 set. Notice, I have emphasized the word CARD; and, not subject.

Furthermore, I consider that the 68 cards in the 1910 COUPON series should be included in the T206 set. Which now brings the total
to 593 cards comprising a complete T206 set....which consists of 17 basic Tobacco brands.

And, this is my opinion, of which I am entitled to have and to speak of (having collected T206's for 36 years).


Obviously, you (and some others) disagree; and, that is your prerogative.


TED Z
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[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This Cobb was printed and issued within the time frame of the printing of the 350 series T206's.....circa early Spring 1910.

It's caption is printed with BROWN ink. The Factory #33 identified on it's back is the Reidsville, NC. The ATC factory where
the Ty Cobb Tobacco was produced.

There is nothing on this White-Bordered tobacco card that prevents it from being a T206.

Hey, there are 5 cards of Hal Chase in the T206 set, so why not 5 cards of Ty Cobb.


TED Z
.

1. Bat on
2. Bat off
3. Red portrait
4. Green portrait
5. ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

1. Bat on
2. Bat off
3. Red portrait
4. Green portrait
5. ?

Glossy red portrait maybe??

[yoyot1]

Originally Posted by tedzan

We had a interesting and spirited discussion on this subject 7 years ago. Check-out this thread (dated 1-26-2009).."Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate"
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=92026

If you don't have the time to read thru this very informative thread, then I'll save you the trouble by this excerpting this Post (#89) in it......

These Feb and Mar 1910 Newspaper clippings cinched for me....these dates fall within the T206 rubric....this Cobb card is indeed the 525th card in the T206 set.






TED Z
.

Just to add a little more info - I did a little bit of research on Ty Cobb tobacco awhile ago, and the earliest references to it that I've found precede those in the Macon newspaper.

Nov. 16 1909, in the Reidsville Review newspaper (Reidsville is the home of Factory 33), is the earliest mention I found. The other mentions in the Reidsville Review are from Jan 25 and 28, 1910, and Webster's Weekly (Reidsville) on Jan 27, 1910.

I don't consider the Ty Cobb a T206 card, i just think it is a one-off card. I'm fine with the assumption that it was included in the tins (which I don't think there is any proof of yet, but makes sense). FR Penn joined the trust secretly around 1903/4 I think, but to the outside world it was still presented as an independent. I don't think it become publicly outed as controlled by the trust until 1910 (I've misplaced the newspaper article that indicated this, and may have my years mixed up) - if this is the case and the card was distributed in 1909/10 then it could have appeared to just be a card from a different tobacco company. It was definitely distributed in a different way from other T206s as the only card from Factory 33.

But that's all my opinion, and I'd be happy to see further evidence.