PWCC Auction

[Touch'EmAll]

I was looking at some high end Aaron's. I even put in a couple of very solid bids, er so I thought - won nothing. On the one hand its nice to see the high prices. But on the other hand, the prices seem a little fishy too high. Just my honest gut feeling. I could be wrong. I suppose look and drool all you want, but watch it, don't go too overboard with your bids.

A good test would be to now list a couple cards that went way high on PWCC with the same prices or say, 5 percent less, with BIN to see if anyone bites.

[bobbyw8469]

A good test would be to now list a couple cards that went way high on PWCC with the same prices or say, 5 percent less, with BIN to see if anyone bites.

I think that has already been proven. Another posted pointed out along time ago that the sales prices surpassed some of the BIN prices, some by a considerable margin.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

I was looking at some high end Aaron's. I even put in a couple of very solid bids, er so I thought - won nothing. On the one hand its nice to see the high prices. But on the other hand, the prices seem a little fishy too high. Just my honest gut feeling. I could be wrong. I suppose look and drool all you want, but watch it, don't go too overboard with your bids.

A good test would be to now list a couple cards that went way high on PWCC with the same prices or say, 5 percent less, with BIN to see if anyone bites.

This has been discussed though, BINs sometimes are never looked at..its not uncommon for a an auction price to go higher on ebay then a current BIN..sometimes thats actually when the BIN is snapped up, right after an auction goes higher...ive done the same thing....heck with the way the willie mays rookie cards have gone up, im sure even some of Deans cards waterfront property cards like the Mantle/ Mays were even bought up after some auctions took place immediately thereafter

Some people just dont pay the same high money for a card from a direct person versus an auction house and also this applies of BIN versus auction.....man looks like i agree with Bobby on this


its almost like the lower bids (hopefully from unique bidders and non shilled) validate the price.......but you can pretty much buy every BIN right now and put those same cards at auction a week later and be certain to lose more than 20% even before ebay fees..i dont think people will disagree with that......many BINs have been listed for months if not years with impacts the perception of some BINs.

if you win every PWCC auction, and resell with PWCC the next month and you are not shlling, i think you lose far less than if you did that with BINs listed on ebay....but who really knows

[midmo]

I generally steer clear of the high priced stuff so I don't know what's happening up there, but us little guys can still find decent deals. Based on VCP pics a few of these were purchased recently so whoever tried to flip them didn't do too hot. Here are the five cards I bought from PWCC on Sunday:

I paid $100, VCP $115 ($130, $111, $122, $164)
I paid $76, VCP $101 ($125, $130, $227, $87)
I paid $96, VCP $108 ($76, $127, $119, $124)
I paid $66, VCP $88 ($110, $92, $130, $63)
I paid $60, VCP $80 ($100, $68, $105, $76)

[glchen]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

This has been discussed though, BINs sometimes are never looked at..its not uncommon for a an auction price to go higher on ebay then a current BIN..sometimes thats actually when the BIN is snapped up, right after an auction goes higher...ive done the same thing....heck with the way the willie mays rookie cards have gone up, im sure even some of Deans cards waterfront property cards like the Mantle/ Mays were even bought up after some auctions took place immediately thereafter
...

As others have said, this is one of the huge incentives why folks shill: basically to generate a realized price sold, where people (mistakenly) believe that the market for that card is moving higher. You can be a nonpaying bidder for that item, but it will still show up on VCP and in the items sold list on ebay. You can have a BIN at a lower price than the card you just shilled up, and buyers will eat it up.

Saying that, I don't think all of the recent items on this PWCC auction was the result of shilling. (full disclosure: I have consigned with PWCC in the past, but I did not consign anything in their current auction.) Since I collect Ruth and Gehrig cards, those are the cards that I tend to follow most. Recently, a buyer came to me from ebay and asked for a private sale where he purchased a large chunk of the Ruth cards that I had for sale. He told me that he has started to collect the Ruth Master set. I then noticed by his feedback score that he also won something like 2/3 of the Ruth cards that were sold in the current PWCC auction. Therefore, although he is showing a high bid % w/ PWCC, he is legit.

I think in general, the card market is thin. If you have a couple of deep pocketed buyers who are collecting a set at the same time, the prices for those cards will spike. However, often times, when they finish their set (or they lose focus and decide to sell it) then the prices for that set will drop. So sometimes, it's all about being lucky in having the right buyers just at the time that you want to sell your cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by glchen

As others have said, this is one of the huge incentives why folks shill: basically to generate a realized price sold, where people (mistakenly) believe that the market for that card is moving higher. You can be a nonpaying bidder for that item, but it will still show up on VCP and in the items sold list on ebay. You can have a BIN at a lower price than the card you just shilled up, and buyers will eat it up.

Saying that, I don't think all of the recent items on this PWCC auction was the result of shilling. (full disclosure: I have consigned with PWCC in the past, but I did not consign anything in their current auction.) Since I collect Ruth and Gehrig cards, those are the cards that I tend to follow most. Recently, a buyer came to me from ebay and asked for a private sale where he purchased a large chunk of the Ruth cards that I had for sale. He told me that he has started to collect the Ruth Master set. I then noticed by his feedback score that he also won something like 2/3 of the Ruth cards that were sold in the current PWCC auction. Therefore, although he is showing a high bid % w/ PWCC, he is legit.

I think in general, the card market is thin. If you have a couple of deep pocketed buyers who are collecting a set at the same time, the prices for those cards will spike. However, often times, when they finish their set (or they lose focus and decide to sell it) then the prices for that set will drop. So sometimes, it's all about being lucky in having the right buyers just at the time that you want to sell your cards.

right I agree its like the stock market...its about timing......there are a lot of non-PWCC sellers on ebay that do a lot of shady things....buy from themselves and then cancel the sale etc......go ahead and try to buy your own card with PWCC and see how it goes, its much easier to have two accounts that you are the buyer and seller I would think...basically, I would worry more about non pwcc accounts more..

heck I bought a 1953 mantle on ebay at auction from a non pwcc seller for about 100 or so less than what I thought it would go for..and then he cancelled the sale and refunded my money...I never had that happen with pwcc where I bought an item and then it was cancelled..

[bobbyw8469]

heck I bought a 1953 mantle on ebay at auction from a non pwcc seller for about 100 or so less than what I thought it would go for..and then he cancelled the sale and refunded my money...I never had that happen with pwcc where I bought an item and then it was cancelled..

That's where you check out the sellers feedback. A reliable seller would never do such a thing. I sold a card once when Ebay had their glitches where no one could view their auctions. I sold a $1,000 card for around $700 during that time. The winning buyer proceeded to flip the card for the $1,100 just two months later. A reliable seller has no problem losing money.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

That's where you check out the sellers feedback. A reliable seller would never do such a thing. I sold a card once when Ebay had their glitches where no one could view their auctions. I sold a $1,000 card for around $700 during that time. The winning buyer proceeded to flip the card for the $1,100 just two months later. A reliable seller has no problem losing money.

"Pricing error, it happens daily"

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

This has been discussed though, BINs sometimes are never looked at..its not uncommon for a an auction price to go higher on ebay then a current BIN..sometimes thats actually when the BIN is snapped up, right after an auction goes higher...ive done the same thing....heck with the way the willie mays rookie cards have gone up, im sure even some of Deans cards waterfront property cards like the Mantle/ Mays were even bought up after some auctions took place immediately thereafter

Some people just dont pay the same high money for a card from a direct person versus an auction house and also this applies of BIN versus auction.....man looks like i agree with Bobby on this


its almost like the lower bids (hopefully from unique bidders and non shilled) validate the price.......but you can pretty much buy every BIN right now and put those same cards at auction a week later and be certain to lose more than 20% even before ebay fees..i dont think people will disagree with that......many BINs have been listed for months if not years with impacts the perception of some BINs.

if you win every PWCC auction, and resell with PWCC the next month and you are not shlling, i think you lose far less than if you did that with BINs listed on ebay....but who really knows

Anyone that values their time, is NOT looking at BINS. 98% of BINS are sellers trolling for bidiots.

[bobbyw8469]

Anyone that values their time, is NOT looking at BINS. 98% of BINS are sellers trolling for bidiots.

While I agree there are a lot of overpriced BIN's in the 707/Dean's card pricing world, there are actually very many reasonably priced BIN's as well. A little thing called competition has people selling things while they are jockeying each other to be the lowest priced seller. I sell BIN's and mine are nowhere near the stratosphere level.

If you remember not too long ago, a seller sold a George Brett rookie card for WAYYYYY under market value and I got snatched up within minutes. So there are deals to be had.

You can thank Ebay, sniping, and unrealistic expectation of buyers for the lack of auctions on Ebay, which has lead to the overabundance of BIN's on there. Too many sellers losing their shirts, while most of them can't afford to lose anything.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

While I agree there are a lot of overpriced BIN's in the 707/Dean's card pricing world, there are actually very many reasonably priced BIN's as well. A little thing called competition has people selling things while they are jockeying each other to be the lowest priced seller. I sell BIN's and mine are nowhere near the stratosphere level.

If you remember not too long ago, a seller sold a George Brett rookie card for WAYYYYY under market value and I got snatched up within minutes. So there are deals to be had.

You can thank Ebay, sniping, and unrealistic expectation of buyers for the lack of auctions on Ebay, which has lead to the overabundance of BIN's on there. Too many sellers losing their shirts, while most of them can't afford to lose anything.

WE NEED TO REMEMBER...AS IT SEEMS MANY HAVE FORGOTTEN...THAT THIS IS A "VINTAGE" BOARD...and many of us...in fact most of us could not give a F&ck about george brett rookie bins...LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES here...take it elsewhere!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

WE NEED TO REMEMBER...AS IT SEEMS MANY HAVE FORGOTTEN...THAT THIS IS A "VINTAGE" BOARD...and many of us...in fact most of us could not give a F&ck about george brett rookie bins...LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES here...take it elsewhere!

Uhhh...why the anger?? We are still talking about cards? Since when did a 1952 Topps Mantle card NOT be a vintage card. Even a George Brett rookie card is 41 years old (I am unsure why I am even defending this, as it what just an example of the deals that can and do still exist under the BIN format).

Your anger is misplaced my friend. Take a deep breath. Relax. It's just cardboard. No matter what year it is!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Uhhh...why the anger?? We are still talking about cards? Since when did a 1952 Topps Mantle card NOT be a vintage card. Even a George Brett rookie card is 41 years old (I am unsure why I am even defending this, as it what just an example of the deals that can and do still exist under the BIN format).

Your anger is misplaced my friend. Take a deep breath. Relax. It's just cardboard. No matter what year it is!

The front (main) page of the board is generally for Pre-WWII baseball cards. That is what the title says anyway. The closer to that, imo, the less off topic a thread is. But if it's not pre-war II baseball card talk it is technically off topic on the main page. There are other sections for Post war etc.....

[jmb]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Anyone that values their time, is NOT looking at BINS. 98% of BINS are sellers trolling for bidiots.

Disagree. I mostly look at BINs. Just grabbed something a month ago I could easily flip for $750-$1000 profit, if I wanted to.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by jmb

Disagree. I mostly look at BINs. Just grabbed something a month ago I could easily flip for $750-$1000 profit, if I wanted to.

I disagree as well. And the thread was about PWCC, who sells all kinds of cards, not just T206's. Someone chimed in about the lack of good BIN's, so I just posted an example and got blasted. Business as usual.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I disagree as well. And the thread was about PWCC, who sells all kinds of cards, not just T206's. Someone chimed in about the lack of good BIN's, so I just posted an example and got blasted. Business as usual.

i apologize for my overreaction...rough morning.

[Bored5000]

I am not denying that shilling happens in some PWCC auctions (and Probstein and many random eBay sellers as well). It is obvious from looking at the bid history that there is some shady bidding going on at times.

But I think PWCC gets the prices he does because of how much visibility he has. He has just under 6,000 followers and still starts auctions at 99 cents on a site where auctions have greatly diminished in recent years. Is there any other card seller on eBay with anything close to 6,000 followers?

I have never consigned anything to PWCC, so I don't have an agenda from that standpoint. But he has so many followers because he has amazing stuff in all of his auctions. Almost every time he runs an auction, I see cards that I never even knew existed or rarely see up for auction.

Eddie Sm*th

[Exhibitman]

There are some great bargain BINS (sorry couldn't resist) but they cluster around the cards with high pops, which will be postwar mainstream. Hell I picked up a huge card on my list the other night for what I thought was a great bargain via BIN. If the seller actually ships and the card is as advertised I will be very pleased. I was so surprised to see the price that I actually checked the PSA certification, which I have never done before.

But I digress.

Oddly enough for N54 all sides are a bit right in this one. PWCC and Probstein are shill bidding havens. No doubt of that. Honest consignors are there too. Some of the honestly sold items do fetch great prices because they have strong mailing lists and good advertising and like it or not they do drive eyes to their offerings. At the same time there is as much cheating there as a bazaar in Teheran. The buzzwords really are watch your ass in these auctions. I bid in them as I did in the other bad ones with eyes wide open.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I disagree as well. And the thread was about PWCC, who sells all kinds of cards, not just T206's. Someone chimed in about the lack of good BIN's, so I just posted an example and got blasted. Business as usual.

Bobby, next time just replace the words "George Brett rookie card" (or any other vintage or modern card) with "T206 rare back," and you'll be good.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by glchen

Bobby, next time just replace the words "George Brett rookie card" (or any other vintage or modern card) with "T206 rare back," and you'll be good.

LOL....sounds good......