HOF results

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many of Bumgarner's starts have you caught? Kershaw's? What percentage of Halliday's innings pitched did you see personally?

Glad you asked. I lived in San Francisco for four years and regularly watched Baumgarner pitch against the Dodgers, who included Kershaw. Not to mention watching West Coast games the entire time I was there. I also watched Halladay pitch every time the Yankees played him and the Blue Jays.

Had I not seen them in real time, I have every opportunity to watch them on the news at night, or on Sportscenter, MLB Network and/or Youtube, along with their team's websites.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Glad you asked. I lived in San Francisco for four years and regularly watched Baumgarner pitch against the Dodgers, who included Kershaw. Not to mention watching West Coast games the entire time I was there. I also watched Halladay pitch every time the Yankees played him and the Blue Jays.

Had I not seen them in real time, I have every opportunity to watch them on the news at night, or on Sportscenter, MLB Network and/or Youtube, along with their team's websites.

Somehow I doubt the average or even above average fan is catching hours of baseball on a nightly basis. I could be wrong. Personal observation is great, but I am guessing even someone as devoted as you would not be able to accurately rate players just based on what you saw if hypothetically you had no idea what their stats were.

[packs]

I think that's an old world view. For the Sportscenter generation (like me) we are used to seeing sports highlights played round the clock every day. The fantasy generation (like me) is well aware of stats and who's who, perhaps even more than ever before. While fantasy is stats based, it does not take into account things like WAR or JAWS, only what you see in front of you.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by packs

I think that's an old world view. For the Sportscenter generation (like me) we are used to seeing sports highlights played round the clock every day. The fantasy generation (like me) is well aware of stats and who's who, perhaps even more than ever before. While fantasy is stats based, it does not take into account things like WAR or JAWS, only what you see in front of you.

If all you see are highlights how is that an accurate representation of a player's abilities at bat to at bat and game to game? You see a guy do something great in the clutch on Sportcenter every other week and in your mind he must be "clutch". Sportcenter may not be showing the 9 other times he came up with the game on the line and crapped himself. But without seeing it on Sportscenter you wouldn't know. Perception versus reality.

And are you saying that because fantasy baseball uses counting stats that those are somehow more valid?

Tom C

[packs]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

If all you see are highlights how is that an accurate representation of a player's abilities at bat to at bat and game to game? You see a guy do something great in the clutch on Sportcenter every other week and in your mind he must be "clutch". Sportcenter may not be showing the 9 other times he came up with the game on the line and crapped himself. But without seeing it on Sportscenter you wouldn't know. Perception versus reality.

And are you saying that because fantasy baseball uses counting stats that those are somehow more valid?

Tom C

No, I'm saying fantasy baseball uses the same counting stats people in this thread have brought up to show why they feel a player (like Kent) was worthy of the HOF. And that fantasy stats are more in tune with what your eyes see than something like JAWS or WAR.

In terms of highlights, I think you're treating people like they're blind or have no concept of the game. If you hear things about a player like Mike Trout and then watch highlights of Mike Trout, it should be apparent to even a casual fan that he is elite. If it's not, then that person shouldn't really have a valid opinion on who is a HOFer and who isn't in the first place.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Mike Trout is elite, his stats will reflect it -- and of course they do.

Though ESPN highlights won't tell you that he still strikes out an awful lot.

[packs]

Yes but I don't need to know his WAR or JAWS to know the player he is, which is my point. I can watch him play.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Somehow I doubt the average or even above average fan is catching hours of baseball on a nightly basis. I could be wrong. Personal observation is great, but I am guessing even someone as devoted as you would not be able to accurately rate players just based on what you saw if hypothetically you had no idea what their stats were.

The fans aren't voting on who gets into the HOF. The baseball sports writers are. Since its their job to watch and report on games, I would venture to guess that they see quite a few more games in any given season than almost any fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

The fans aren't voting on who gets into the HOF. The baseball sports writers are. Since its their job to watch and report on games, I would venture to guess that they see quite a few more games in any given season than almost any fan.

Then I guess the corollary of that is you should have faith in their voting.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then I guess the corollary of that is you should have faith in their voting.

Ah, deflection away from the issue at hand. Nice. I like it. Very lawyerly. Kind of reminds me of arguing with my wife.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Ah, deflection away from the issue at hand. Nice. I like it. Very lawyerly. Kind of reminds me of arguing with my wife.

Heh.