Timeline of Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis cards). Show us your Demmitt & O'Hara cards

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

If one wants to delve further into speculation, one can imagine the following timeline:

T1: Original 350/460 sheet

• Printed with "350 Subjects" and assorted backs, including Polar Bear in limited quantities
• Includes J. Doyle, Kleinow (N.Y. Catching), Nichols (Batting), Rhoades (Arm Extended), Smith (Chi. White Cap)
• Does NOT include Demmitt (St. L), O’Hara (St. L.), “Extra” Joss (Pitching) and Willis (Throwing)

T2: Midwestern 350/460 Derivative sheet

• Builds off Original 350/460 sheet
• Printed only with Polar Bear
• Replaces J. Doyle, Kleinow (N.Y. Catching), Nichols (Batting), Rhoades (Arm Extended), Smith (Chi. White Cap)
• With Demmitt (St. L), Kleinow (Boston), O’Hara (St. L.), Smith (Chi. & Bos.), “Extra” Joss (Pitching) and Willis (Throwing) (maybe each 1.5X printed ???)

T2 (or T3?): Non-Midwestern 350/460 Derivative sheet

• Builds off Original 350/460 sheet
• Printed with "460 Subjects" and assorted backs
• Replaces J. Doyle, Kleinow (N.Y. Catching), Nichols (Batting), Rhoades (Arm Extended), Smith (Chi. White Cap)
• With Kleinow (Boston), Smith (Chi. & Bos.), ???, ???, ???

Scot

I like your "Midwestern POLAR BEAR distribution" theory; and, I think it needs to extend to include Detroit.

Check-out your numbers for both Cobb's (red and batting). American Lithograph must have double-printed
or triple-printed these subjects with the POLAR BEAR (PB) backs.

Also, I am curious about your numbers regarding Crawford and the two Jennings cards with PB backs. Plus
Mullin, O'Leary, and Willetts with PB backs.


Furthermore, perhaps we should also consider the 12 subjects (with PB) of the two Chicago teams ?


TED Z
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[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

I am happy to provide your requested data when I return to the office. But I don't think I would extend my working theory to Detroit. Under my working theory, there were five 350/460 subjects removed from production early:

Doyle (N.Y.) reason = team caption error
Nichols (Batting) reason = retirement after a few games played with Cleveland
Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) reason = trade to Boston
Rhoades (Right Arm Extended) reason = retirement after 1909 from Cleveland
Smith (Chi. White Cap) reason = trade to Boston

And there were four undisputed 350/460 subjects added:

Demmitt (St. Louis) reason - trade to St. Louis (Polar Bear only)
Kleinow (Boston) reason = trade to Boston
O'Hara (St. Louis) reason = trade to St. Louis (Polar Bear only)
Smith (Chicago & Boston) reason = trade to Boston

So the emphasis is on St. Louis, Cleveland -- and I suppose Boston.

Perhaps the transition was as follows ???

Midwestern sheet (Polar Bear only)

Doyle --> Joss/Willis (extra-print)
Kleinow (N.Y.) --> Kleinow (Boston)
Nichols --> Demmitt
Rhoades --> O'Hara
Smith (Chi.) --> Smith (Chi. & Boston)

Non-Midwestern sheet

Doyle --> Stahl
Kleinow (N.Y.) --> Kleinow (Boston)
Nichols --> ???
Rhoades --> ???
Smith (Chi.) --> Smith (Chi. & Boston)

Scot

EDITED TO ADD: As for Cobb (Red) being printed in large quantities with Polar Bear, I can say that ALL of the 6 superprints were printed in large quantities with Polar Bear. I believe this to be a superprint phenomenon, not a Detroit-specific phenomenon.

[tedzan]

Hi Scot

Illustrated in my 72-card simulation sheet of the original 66 subjects in the 350/460 Series are the 6 super-prints Double Printed. So, I agree with you that the large quantities of the red Cobb
are accounted for.

But, how do we account for the large quantities of the Cobb (bat off shoulder) which, in my research, are approx. equal to that of the red Cobb ?


v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v









TED Z
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[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Great display -- love the simulation sheet.

In my dataset:

Cobb (Red), Polar Bear, N = 110
Cobb (Bat Off), Polar Bear, N = 63

The Cobb (Red) data are in-line with other superprints.

The Cobb (Bat Off) data are in-line with other non-superprint HOFers.

So my dataset does not show a Detroit-specific phenomenon.

Hope you are having a wonderful Christmas.

Scot

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,

Great display -- love the simulation sheet.

In my dataset:

Cobb (Red), Polar Bear, N = 110
Cobb (Bat Off), Polar Bear, N = 63

The Cobb (Red) data are in-line with other superprints.

The Cobb (Bat Off) data are in-line with other non-superprint HOFers.

So my dataset does not show a Detroit-specific phenomenon.

Hope you are having a wonderful Christmas.

Scot

Hi Scot

The data I have regarding the Cobb (bat off shoulder) card is approx. 75 % of the Cobb (red portrait) card. I think my higher numbers are most likely due
to grading "re-submissions" for the Cobb (bat off) card over a long period of time.

Thanks, we had a nice Christmas family gathering yesterday. My younger Daughter, Zoe, arrived from Santa Monica (CA). Our Grandson, Ron, drove down
from Maine. My Sister's family joined us. But, we really, really miss our older Daughter, Debbie.

Hope you and your Family are having a wonderful Christmas. Best Wishes to you for a Happy New Year


TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

But, we really, really miss our older Daughter, Debbie.


TED Z
.

My heart goes out to you my friend. Peace be with you and your family.

[tedzan]

Scot

Your heartfelt words of sympathy are very appreciated.

Take care, my good friend.


TED Z
.