Pete Rose Poll

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Pete you forgot to mention that they are in the news every week for a shooting, battery, assault, domestic violence, murder, etc.

So in addition to getting away with PED's and other drugs they get away with all of that as well.

I to this day can't comprehend why anyone would support a league or organization full of criminals that go widely unpunished.

+1

[GaryPassamonte]

No. On the field, Pete Rose epitomized what a ballplayer should be. Off the field, he broke the cardinal rule. Rose's case is the biggest tragedy in the history of baseball.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Rose's case is the biggest tragedy in the history of baseball.

Personally, I think Bonds's case may be the biggest tragedy in the history of baseball, if by tragedy you mean one that is self-inflicted (as opposed to someone like Gehrig or Clemente or, say, what happened to Kirby Puckett). Bonds was a first ballot Hall of Famer before he took steroids, but jealousy and hubris too over, and now he will always be tarnished. It's like one of those legends from the Greek myths.

[Joshchisox08]

Personally, I think Bonds's case may be the biggest tragedy in the history of baseball, if by tragedy you mean one that is self-inflicted (as opposed to someone like Gehrig or Clemente or, say, what happened to Kirby Puckett). Bonds was a first ballot Hall of Famer before he took steroids, but jealousy and hubris too over, and now he will always be tarnished. It's like one of those legends from the Greek myths.

How does anyone know when Bonds started taking steroids?

[pbspelly]

Fair point, there's no way to know for sure. But I think most people in baseball believe Bonds did not start taking steroids until sometime after the McGwire/Sosa home run record season. Based on his physique, power surge, and other evidence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Fair point, there's no way to know for sure. But I think most people in baseball believe Bonds did not start taking steroids until sometime after the McGwire/Sosa home run record season. Based on his physique, power surge, and other evidence.

He clearly did, but he was equally clearly an obvious HOFer already.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Fair point, there's no way to know for sure. But I think most people in baseball believe Bonds did not start taking steroids until sometime after the McGwire/Sosa home run record season. Based on his physique, power surge, and other evidence.

Bonds' power surge began in 1993 when he hit more HRs than Willie McCovey and more HRs than Mays, except 1965, ever in Candlestick. And 1994 when he was on pace to break Mays' team record for HRs and teammate Matt Williams was on pace to break Maris' MLB HR record.

[Kenny Cole]

The claim that greenies are illegal has "no support"? Seriously? Perhaps you should look at 21 U.S.C. Sections 801 et seq. Amphetamines are a Schedule II controlled dangerous substance. Whether the feds prosecute baseball or those who sell or distribute them without a prescription to do so is wholly irrelevant to that issue of whether that is legal or not.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rats60

Bonds' power surge began in 1993 when he hit more HRs than Willie McCovey and more HRs than Mays, except 1965, ever in Candlestick. And 1994 when he was on pace to break Mays' team record for HRs and teammate Matt Williams was on pace to break Maris' MLB HR record.

Thank you.

I've long believed that Bonds started doing roids before the 1993 season.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by rats60

Bonds' power surge began in 1993 when he hit more HRs than Willie McCovey and more HRs than Mays, except 1965, ever in Candlestick. And 1994 when he was on pace to break Mays' team record for HRs and teammate Matt Williams was on pace to break Maris' MLB HR record.

He was certainly a power hitter and great player pre-1999, but a closer look at the numbers shows a definite surge after 1999.

-His slugging averages pre-1999 range from .416 to a high of .677. Beginning in 1999 it jumps to .688, .863, .799, .749, .812 for the next five years.

-His home runs per at bat rate was one-in-every-16 for the first 14 years of his career, with a high of one-every-10.6 in 1994. Beginning in 1999 it jumps to one-every-8.5 at bats.

-Pre-1999 he had three seasons (out of 13) with 40 or more home runs. Beginning in 1999 he has 5 in a row, including the ridiculous 73 he hit in 2001.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, ALL OF THIS INCREASE COMES WHEN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL AND ATHLETES INDICATES HE IS WELL PAST HIS PRIME AND OUGHT TO BE DECLINING. His power surge in 1993 was to be expected, based on a strong player coming into his prime. His second surge and best years, though, come after age 35, which, for an every day player, is, quite frankly, unheard of in the history of the game.

There are very few people in the baseball industry who believe he took steroids in the early 90s. There are very few who believe he didn't take them after 1999.