Old Judge Orotone Photo/Studio Proof "Jumbo" Davis **UPDATED**

[drcy]

Orotones are usually large. However, there were a lot of cases around and it's a matter of finding one that fits.

[drcy]

The Old Judge text in the image is very curious, but the photo itself looks like an orotone. Definitely looks like gold on the back (gold doesn't tarnish with age, which is one reason why it's so prized). I was the one who suggested he take it out and look at the back. I recall seeing two other baseball orotones.

[GoCubsGo32]

I've been searching for the other baseball "orotones" and here's the ones I could find. I found only two in baseball uniform. One is a smaller size the other I couldn't find much since the auction page was taken down from Memory Lane(?).

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/lot-9145.aspx

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...emory-lane-inc

LOT #961
http://www.memorylaneinc.com/sept07.html

I could take the picture out of the antique gold frame around it but,not sure if that's necessary or might have difficulties putting it back.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by drcy

Orotones are usually large. However, there were a lot of cases around and it's a matter of finding one that fits.

That, to me, makes it even stranger that it would precisely fit into an 1860's sixth plate case. Another oddity is the subject of the image being larger than the boundaries of the photo. You would RARELY ever see that back then. With this in mind, the thought might be that it were cut down, however, its made of glass so rule that one out.

My gut tells me that its possibly an early 1900's reprint of an Old Judge into Orotone format or its just another of the multitude of recent fakes.

Rob M.

[GoCubsGo32]

I was able to carefully remove the glass photo out of the frame and put it back in with no issues. I don't know if these photos out of the frame help out but thought it was worth the investigation to maybe help the issue(s).

[drcy]

One more. I know of no others.

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...graph-on-Metal

Duly note that, despite what the description may imply, I don't work for Lelands. I merely emailed them to tell them what they had.

[1880nonsports]

but why would you think it couldn't have been cut down from a larger image? These blank plates were sold to the photographer in a much larger size - the evidence of some cutting is naturally noticeable in the images provided on more than one side. The balance and proportions of the non-image area are off as well.
I would not think it to be a modern copy as the price of gold is now and in the recent past many times what it would have been whether original to 1887/88 shoot OR a subsequent re-issue at the turn of the century. Mostly I just can't see the incentive to produce with ill intent......
Interesting item.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

but why would you think it couldn't have been cut down from a larger image? These blank plates were sold to the photographer in a much larger size - the evidence of some cutting is naturally noticeable in the images provided on more than one side. The balance and proportions of the non-image area are off as well.
I would not think it to be a modern copy as the price of gold is now and in the recent past many times what it would have been whether original to 1887/88 shoot OR a subsequent re-issue at the turn of the century. Mostly I just can't see the incentive to produce with ill intent......
Interesting item.

I should correct my earlier statement - It probably is not a current fake due to the difficulty of producing it versus the return. It is more likely that it is an orotone produced in the early 1900's possibly from one of the glass plate negatives that we have seen showing up in the last few years. Much like the Omaha Old Judges that were believed to have been produced from them after the turn of the century. However, I would still doubt it was ever cut down. That would be difficult for the average person to do considering that it is glass and what purpose would it really serve? Certainly not just for the purpose of putting it in an old case.

Rob M.

[drcy]

I don't see it being a modern fake, in that it's an obscure process that few baseball collectors are familiar with. You generally don't forge items the potential buyers are ignorant about. Note that even Lelands didn't realize what they had. Plus most forgeries are something simple to make (ala, all those digital baseball card reprints). The orotone process is expensive and difficult. It's not something the normal person could make.

There are modern made orotones, including of Edward Curtis's famous images of American Indians, but the modern versions themselves are expensive, due to the laborious process and gold. The modern made Curtis orotones often sell for over $1,000.

Before he took it apart, I said that if it was a fake, it would most probably have a reproduction image of the player on a piece of paper placed behind the glass. But he took it apart and the back was gold as with a genuine orotone.

[BTFalls]

That's Myron Allen. OJ pose 4-3.

He and Jumbo were teammates and there is a resemblance.

Very cool piece!