Is Dahlen a lock ????? VS others at position why not ??

[packs]

Even if you only used Wiki, how do you not vote for a guy like Stovey or Dahlen? Their pages quite literally tell you they are amongst the greatest players not in the HOF.

[Topps206]

We don't know who Blyleven voted for. It's the eight who didn't vote these players that need questioning.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by packs

Even if you only used Wiki, how do you not vote for a guy like Stovey or Dahlen? Their pages quite literally tell you they are amongst the greatest players not in the HOF.

DITTO

Back in the early 1990's, I was hoarding Dahlen's cards, for I thought for sure he would have been inducted back then by the Veteran's Committee (such as Vic Willis was in 1995).



I'll mention another candidate that may stir up some controversy here......Gil Hodges. You can check out all Gil's stats and stories in BB Ref. or Wiki; however, I saw him play from
1949 to 1963. Trust me, if you had seen Gil play, you too would wonder why he's not in the HOF.

During the decade of the 1950's, Gil lead all MLB 1st basemen in Hits, HR's RBI's, AB's, and extra-base hits. Gil was one of the finest fielding 1st basemen's in the '50s, which won
him the Golden Gloves the first 3 years they were awarded (1957-59).


TED Z
.

[Topps206]

I'm unimpressed by the low OPS+ for Hodges at his position and at Ebbets.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I'm unimpressed by the low OPS+ for Hodges at his position and at Ebbets.

Did you see him play the game ?

I doubt it !

For if you had, you wouldn't make such a negative remark.....when there are a great number of significant stats in Gil's career.


TED Z
.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Did you see him play the game ?

I doubt it !

For if you had, you wouldn't make such a negative remark.....when there are a great number of significant stats in Gil's career.


TED Z
.

Ted,
I agree 100%. Sometimes I wonder if I should not have been born in the 1940s for the sole purpose of visiting Ebbetts Field and seeing the great Dodgers play.
Hodges is a no brainer for those of us who love baseball and root for a player who is beloved by other players but for the powers that be they just don't get it.
Hodges was also an incredible gentleman and a very humble player.
The direct opposite of Dahlen I might add!

Peace, Mike

PS I'm jealous Ted that you have seen Mr. Hodges up close and personal!

[Topps206]

It's all about the numbers, not character, for me. If Hodges played second, short or catcher, I too would be calling for his election. It's position adjustment and I'm not impressed.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Topps206

It's all about the numbers, not character, for me. If Hodges played second, short or catcher, I too would be calling for his election. It's position adjustment and I'm not impressed.

If you can't appreciate Gil Hodges you are not really impressing me with your knowledge of baseball history.

Need I add that Mr. Hodges was as an anti-aircraft gunner in WW2 and most notably Okinawa. He was also the recipient of a Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V" for heroism under fire.

I really do not understand how character means nothing for you? Oh, by the way, best defensive 1B of his day. So many stats to chew on and awards also. Oh yeah, he was the Mets World Championship Manager in 1969.

He was a pure player and pure American. The Hall of Fame could use an icon like him. Actually the Mets Hall of Fame does have Gil inducted. Time for Cooperstown to open the doors.

Peace, Mike

PS Here are some quotes and notations from some notables about Gil:

"Not getting booed at Ebbets Field was an amazing thing. Those fans knew their baseball, and Gil was the only player I can remember whom the fans never, I mean never, booed."—Clem Labine

"...epitomizes the courage, sportsmanship and integrity of America's favorite pastime."—back of a 1966 Topps baseball card.

"Gil Hodges is a Hall of Fame man."—Roy Campanella

"If you had a son, it would be a great thing to have him grow up to be just like Gil Hodges."—Pee Wee Reese

"Gil Hodges is a Hall of Famer; he deserves it and it's a shame his family and friends have had to wait so long."—Duke Snider

"He [Hodges] was such a noble character in so many respects that I believe Gil to have been one of the finest men I met in sports or out if it."—Arthur Daley, The New York Times.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Ted,
I agree 100%. Sometimes I wonder if I should not have been born in the 1940s for the sole purpose of visiting Ebbetts Field and seeing the great Dodgers play.
Hodges is a no brainer for those of us who love baseball and root for a player who is beloved by other players but for the powers that be they just don't get it.
Hodges was also an incredible gentleman and a very humble player.
The direct opposite of Dahlen I might add!

Peace, Mike

PS I'm jealous Ted that you have seen Mr. Hodges up close and personal!

Thanks for your kind words.

I grew up as an avid Yankees fan; and, the first BB game I was at was in the Summer of 1950 at Yankee Stadium. Between my cousins and my neighbors,
I went to quite a few games in the Bronx.

But, I will tell you that the most exciting game I was at in my youth was at Ebbets Field in Sept. 1951. Giants vs Dodgers....and at that point in the season
the Giants were gaining on the 1st place Dodgers.

This game was a real pitching duel, the score at the start of the 9th inning was 1-0, Dodgers. The Giants led off with a Walk and a Hit. The next batter was
Bobby Thomson, who drove the ball to left-center field. The guy on 2nd scored easily to tie the game. The guy on 1st made a run for home-plate. A cloud
of dust formed when he slid home. The Umpire signaled the OUT call. Then in a split second, he switches to a SAFE call. It was pure bedlam in Ebbets Field.
The Ump was bombarded with all kinds of stuff thrown at him from the stands.

Apparently, the Runner must of kicked the ball out of Roy Campanella's glove. The Giants went on to win the game....and the rest of the season is (as they
say) history.

The decade of the 1950's in BB was a tremendous time to be growing up (especially if you lived in the New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia area).


Take care,

TED Z
.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I'm unimpressed by the low OPS+ for Hodges at his position and at Ebbets.

OPS+ is supposed to be adjusted for the park. I don't see how an OPS + of 120 and a fielding percentage of .992 is bad, but an OPS + of 110 and a fielding percentage of .927 is a lock for the hof. I think that Hodges is more deserving than Dahlen when you consider character and managing. Hodges not only took a laughing stock Mets franchise to world champions, he made the expansion Senators respectable.

[darwinbulldog]

Someday, Man. Someday. Then the late Mr. Sawyer and I will share a bottle of champagne.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by rats60

OPS+ is supposed to be adjusted for the park. I don't see how an OPS + of 120 and a fielding percentage of .992 is bad, but an OPS + of 110 and a fielding percentage of .927 is a lock for the hof. I think that Hodges is more deserving than Dahlen when you consider character and managing. Hodges not only took a laughing stock Mets franchise to world champions, he made the expansion Senators respectable.

It's position adjustment. Dahlen a shortstop, Hodges a first baseman. Ebbets was a small park. Dahlen was a star in the Deadball Era.

[dougscats]

Gil was my idol as a youth though I didn't see him play much, mostly when he was finished as a NY Met.

I did see him hit three balls out of the Polo Grounds in a double-header, I guess it was '62. The last one was right down the line, above the foul pole, over the roof. The umpires deliberated before calling it fair. I learned later that Drysdale, with a 10-0 lead, purportedly grooved it for his old teamie.

I also saw him close up in Leemark Lanes, a Brooklyn bowling alley. He did have huge hands!

I've personally rooted/campaigned for him for the h-o-f for so long now that I'm disgusted and fed up, remembering last year's vote.
I read on Net54 awhile back that Ted Williams, who finished second to him for 1969 manager of the year, and Earl Williams, who lost to him in the World Series, actively campaigned against him.
You'd think Tom Seaver, who venerated Gil, would now stand up for him.

As far as belonging, his stats are close to Cepeda and Perez if I remember correctly, and he did lose a year or so due to the war. And besides his fielding, he was also a teammate who quietly had Jackie Robinson's back.
But what has to put him in the h-o-f is his managing of the '69 Miracle Mets.

I've been watching baseball for 60 years now, and that was the single greatest managerial season I've ever seen. Every move he made was right. Look at their roster--they were a team that was greater than the sum of their parts--and he was their leader.
I've studied baseball history all my life; what manager ever had a better year than that one? In 1968 he took over a 10th place team that had lost 101 games the year before, and by '69 they'd won 100!
1969 was the year America put a man on the moon, and, let me tell you, the Mets were a longer shot.

PS: Whenever I'm leaving Brooklyn, going home to Breezy Point, I go over the Gil Hodges Memorial Bridge. Yup, Brooklyn named a bridge after him. Beloved is the word.

When, h-o-f?

[Yoda]

Growing up, the Dodgers were my favorite team and Gil, old #14, my most beloved player. I did see a couple of games with my dad at Ebbetts Field and watched in awe during one as he launched an opposite field homer over the Schaffer Beer sign in right. One other memory: It was the '52 or '53 subway series against, who else, the Yankees and Gil was in a terrible slump, hitless, I think, over the first 4 games. The priest in Gil' local parish asked the congregation during Mass to pray to relieve Gil's pain and give him a couple of bingles. Can't recall if it worked or not, but I guess when all else fails why not call on a higher power. Ted Z. you might recall this tiny bit of Hodges history even if you were rooting against the wrong team.

[Topps206]

I would say Dahlen is more worthy because advanced metrics favor him at a touger position in a tougher era.

I think Blyleven is one of the best pitchers ever. Gossage is one of the best relievers ever. I think that someone can quietly put up a Hall of Fame career. Just because they weren't always in the spotlight or not seen/marketed as a major star does not negate their worthiness to me.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rats60

OPS+ is supposed to be adjusted for the park. I don't see how an OPS + of 120 and a fielding percentage of .992 is bad, but an OPS + of 110 and a fielding percentage of .927 is a lock for the hof. I think that Hodges is more deserving than Dahlen when you consider character and managing. Hodges not only took a laughing stock Mets franchise to world champions, he made the expansion Senators respectable.

Hey guy

You presented a very logical argument here for the Hodges vs Dahlen comparison with respect to their OPS+ and Fielding %.

However, it has become apparent that "Topps206" doesn't do logic. For whatever reasons....he has some emotional "hang-ups" regarding Hodges.


Dougscats

Great story....well said of Gil Hodges. Perhaps someday in the not so far off future, Gil will be in the HOF.


TED Z
.

[GregMitch34]

I love that very marginal HOFers Blyleven and Niekro passing judgment on others they haven't even seen play. Too bad Drysdale is gone, he could have joined them.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

I love that very marginal HOFers Blyleven and Niekro passing judgment on others they haven't even seen play. Too bad Drysdale is gone, he could have joined them.

IMO neither of those are HOF player especially Blyleven.

[Topps206]

I think Blyleven belongs, but who is he to hold anyone back after he waited more than a decade?