Auction Houses vs. Ebay

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no..if you want to pay 6000 ....we have to assume buyers know the buyers premium....so if they want to pay 6000 they bid 5000 or so....20% BP (plus some sellers get some of that from the AH) on ebay you bid to $6000...seller loses 13% of that around..

so again its 20% versus 13%.....BP not a factor besides the total charges seller or buyer pays which have already been stated.. .its not like BP is a secret.....some people are willing to pay more total for the card than on Ebay for certain cards etc........but its not like theres magic BP that the buyer is not aware of...

a 1952 topps psa 8 Jackie robinson is on HA right now bid to 16k plus BP..i know I couldn't get 11k on it on ebay this year...so I wouldn't care about buyers paying BP on heritage.... this is just one example..

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. Case closed. AH's are in real trouble. The dinosaurs bidding via this process will be gone in 10 years.

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. Case closed. AH's are in real trouble. The dinosaurs bidding via this process will be gone in 10 years.

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

What sites are charging a 15% seller's fee on 5k + cards? I think most sites would wave the seller's fee completely for cards like that, if not give a portion of the buyer's premium as well. You're still looking at 15-20% vs 8% but I wouldn't consign my cards to any AH charging a seller's fee.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

What sites are charging a 15% seller's fee on 5k + cards? I think most sites would wave the seller's fee completely for cards like that, if not give a portion of the buyer's premium as well. You're still looking at 15-20% vs 8% but I wouldn't consign my cards to any AH charging a seller's fee.

I think he's referring to the 15-20% buyers premium that we all take in account.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I think he's referring to the 15-20% buyers premium that we all take in account.

His mention of 35% vs 8% implies a 15-20% buyer's and seller's premium. My point is that I think this would be unusual on a high end, 5k+ card. I would think that even sites that normally charge this seller's premium would wave it to get high end cards in their auction. If they wouldn't, I certainly would not send my cards there.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. .

You can't pick the best rate on one and the worst rate on another. $5K graded cards get 8% from PWCC but probably 0% - 5% sellers premium to go with the 20% buyers premium. So that's 8% vs 19% - 24% (not 20% - 25% if you do the math).

For lower value cards the rate is higher for both. But no matter how you slice it, the AH is a lot higher. By using PWCC you get all the advantages of the AH, they do the work and shipping, have many loyal customers, etc.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

You can't pick the best rate on one and the worst rate on another.

Agreed. Not sure where someone got that AH 35% happy-talk from? I have sold on both eBay and AH for years, very rare to get a seller's commission on AH for most cards/any value and if so, I would avoid. In fact, some AH's will negotiate a percentage back to seller off hammer price.

There are pros and cons for each. Some notes (IMO) below ..

AH - PROS: Auction format (buyers), focus on collectibles/appeal to collectors, no reprints/garbage or sifting through, generally a better quality of merchandise/rarer items, no PayPal, no fees to consignors (generally), harder to retract bids, AH assumes work and cost to list, print (those who have catalogs) and ship, a few AH's will work with TPGs to re-grade, re-slab damaged holders, usually better scans and descriptions. CONS: Too many AHs, hard to keep track of who, what, when. Buyer commissions (I've seen 12.5% to 22%), limited reach/audience, some charge ridiculous shipping ("handling") fees on top of buyer commission, sales tax where applicable factors/erodes into what buyers will bid, longer wait to be paid, usually only pay by check/MO, some AH's pass on PayPal/CC fees to buyer, auction format can be risky for sellers w/out reserve or minimum bid.

EBay - PROS: No buyer commission, broader reach/audience, quicker (you don't have to wait for the next auction), do it yourself formats, easy shipping, no sales tax (for sales under $20K + 200 items annually - some charge sales tax for sales within state), pay by CC/PayPal, easy to identify sellers you'd like to avoid. CONS: FVF (Final Value Fees) usually at/about 10%, PayPal fees on top of, sometimes listing fees as well, difficult feedback policy for sellers, can get unwarranted/unfair buyer feedback which is hard to remove, fraudulent listings, does little to shut down bad listings or sellers (especially if the seller does a lot of business w/eBay), endless BIN ridiculous listings/prices, hard to weed out junk/reprints, eBay customer service is awful.

Shill bidding can happen on both - a lot of hyperbole, hard to prove. Consigning on PWCC, Probstein, etc - basically you're having them do the work of listing and shipping for you. You get the benefit of their name/reach/familiarization but also increased cost of middle-man.

I don't see it as a definite one over the other - both have advantages and some disadvantages. Depends on what you want to do, when and weighing them out. I also like to buy/sell here - Net54 has it's own set of advantages worthy of consideration.

Again, just my opinion .. respectful of others, but never came close to knowing or realizing 35% noted on AHs.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

Shilling with an auction house seems seems far more risky than on eBay, where a shill bidder can simply retract their bid once they find a bidder's max bid. There are routinely auctions posted on here from eBay in which bidders have dozens of retracted bids.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Shilling with an auction house seems seems far more risky than on eBay, where a shill bidder can simply retract their bid once they find a bidder's max bid. There are routinely auctions posted on here from eBay in which bidders have dozens of retracted bids.

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

I am not sure I follow you. Even though a person can't see the bidding history at an auction house, how often do you see the high bid go to, say, $10,000 at an auction house then back down an increment? If there are all these retracted bids with an auction house, why does the winning bid almost never go back down?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

How do you retract a bid at an AH? Don't you have to contact them? That would seem awkward for the shiller

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

How do you retract a bid at an AH? Don't you have to contact them? That would seem awkward for the shiller

It is awkward and rarely done. Ignorance is bliss. AH's don't allow retractions unless it's some kind of extraordinary issue. On the shilling situation I would guess it is 100x worse on ebay than AH's. Both ebay and AH's have a spot in our hobby and I see both continuing to do well for the forseeable future.

[Republicaninmass]

You wouldn't see the bid go down, you get a call the next day