Auction Houses vs. Ebay

[Stetson_1883]

This might be a silly question, but Ive been on this board for a bit, and wanted to finally ask....

why do people use independent auction houses to sell their cards instead of ebay?

It seems to me that these online independent houses would not nearly attract the amount of eyeballs as ebay would.

Whst am I missing here? 😣

Thx!

[ullmandds]

Its cheaper.

[x2drich2000]

Less chance of funny business, returns, ebay deciding what you must do, Paypal charge backs, non-paying bidders, etc. Ebay is fine for lower dollar items, but I can see Ebay being a headache for more expensive items.

DJ

[tschock]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Less chance of funny business, returns, ebay deciding what you must do, Paypal charge backs, non-paying bidders, etc. Ebay is fine for lower dollar items, but I can see Ebay being a headache for more expensive items.

DJ

Of course, unless you are buying '52 Mantles, then it's ebay all the way!

[pokerplyr80]

If you're not a major ebay seller it's going to be hard to sell a card for what a major auction house could, even after the buyer's premium. I know I couldn't unless I got lucky. People don't trust sellers without high ratings and feedback scores as much as say Heritage, Goodwin, etc.

And it's easier. You don't have to post pictures, deal with buyers not paying, or run the risk that someone will receive your card and file an ebay claim any way. You're paying for a service.

I have also consigned to ebay seller PWCC and been pleased with results. Lower fees than AHs and they've got quite a following.

[TanksAndSpartans]

When you say "instead of ebay", do you mean an eBay consigner or selling yourself on eBay?

And one thing that hasn't been mentioned, if you have something rare, that is valuable, but not really mainstream and as a result the number of collectors chasing it is smaller, you may get more eyeballs on it from the AH because they send out catalogs and the length of time the item is "up" is typically longer than the eBay 7 day standard. For a graded card from a mainstream set, I'd probably go with an eBay consigner.

[drcy]

It's also not an either/or proposition. Many dealers sell some items on eBay and consign other items to auction houses. Most dealers have multiple avenues for selling, and use which avenue they deem best for what item and what situation.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Stetson_1883

This might be a silly question, but Ive been on this board for a bit, and wanted to finally ask....

why do people use independent auction houses to sell their cards instead of ebay?

What am I missing here? 😣

No idea since an auction house will end up costing about 3 times as much in fees as someone like PWCC.

[Exhibitman]

Sterling is 15% with no commission on graded cards. eBay is 10% plus 3% for payment processing. And all the other nonsense mentioned above versus no effort besides sending the card to Lee.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

No idea since an auction house will end up costing about 3 times as much in fees as someone like PWCC.

So Pwcc costs less than 4 %?

Joe

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

So Pwcc costs less than 4 %?

Joe

No, PWCC costs around 10% - 13% depending on sale amount, if a card is graded, etc.

The stated auction houses that generate the highest sale amounts (REA, Heritage, Goodwin, etc,) typically add 20% buyer's premium and 20% sellers premium which totals to about 35% or so (not 40% since seller premium is before buyer premium).

Yes, an auction house will lower or even drop the seller premium for truly outstanding items. But PWCC would be 8% for those high sale items.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

No, PWCC costs around 10% - 13% depending on sale amount, if a card is graded, etc.

The stated auction houses that generate the highest sale amounts (REA, Heritage, Goodwin, etc,) typically add 20% buyer's premium and 20% sellers premium which totals to about 35% or so (not 40% since seller premium is before buyer premium).

Yes, an auction house will lower or even drop the seller premium for truly outstanding items. But PWCC would be 8% for those high sale items.

seller premium pretty rare even for items for a few hundred bucks....its basically 20% versus 13% or so......

[bbcard1]

they're just different clubs in the golf bag. I think people TEND to bid more aggressively in an auction house situation for a mid to high end card. I think you get more eyes on an eBay auction, but not necessarily more sophisticated buyers. My experience is also that sometimes, I pick the wrong golf club.

[bn2cardz]

I don't buy off ebay outside of what is emailed in a saved search. It takes too much time to sift through all the junk that is mis-categorized. AH have things organized and you won't have to sit through reprints that advertise as originals.

So just because there are more users on Ebay doesn't mean there are more buyers.

[Exhibitman]

So true, Andy. Lots of lowball bottom feeding lookieloos on eBay. I know because I am one.

[jfkheat]

It would seem logical that buyers would bid more for items on Ebay simply because of the auction house buyers premium and possibly sales taxes. I would much rather pay $5000 on Ebay that pay $6000 plus taxes at an AH.
James

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

It would seem logical that buyers would bid more for items on Ebay simply because of the auction house buyers premium and possibly sales taxes. I would much rather pay $5000 on Ebay that pay $6000 plus taxes at an AH.
James

Why would you not factor in the buyers premium into your bidding? It makes no sense to me that if you were willing to pay $6000 through an auction house that you would not be willing to pay $6000 through Ebay for the same item. How that $6000 is broken up shouldn't matter, your overall cost is the same.

Regarding the sales tax, whether it is collected by the auction house or not, is totally dependent on whether they are required to collect it. While Ebay has more individual sellers who don't collect it, there are certainly sellers on ebay with legitimate businesses that do.

DJ

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Why would you not factor in the buyers premium into your bidding? It makes no sense to me that if you were willing to pay $6000 through an auction house that you would not be willing to pay $6000 through Ebay for the same item. How that $6000 is broken up shouldn't matter, your overall cost is the same.

Regarding the sales tax, whether it is collected by the auction house or not, is totally dependent on whether they are required to collect it. While Ebay has more individual sellers who don't collect it, there are certainly sellers on ebay with legitimate businesses that do.

DJ

That is exactly the point. If I bid $5000 at the auction house and pay $6000 the seller gets paid based on the $5000 selling price. With Ebay they get paid based on the $6000 price. This thread is about which is better for the seller.
James

[bobfreedman]

Auction houses do a lot more than you think, they authenticate the material, they market and advertise the memorabilia and you can also trust whom you are buying from. With eBay you roll the dice wth some of the sellers (not all obviously).

Auction houses also build relationships with consignor who have vast collections and can pick up large collections if necessary. They in turn create printed catalogs to market, describe and photograph material. When items are sold you know you are going to receive the item well packaged.

So there is a lot that they do do and even more than I have described here

[btcarfagno]

Also some auction houses go out of their way to research items to give them an extra boost.

Al over at Love Of The Game auctions researched that Gehrig bat and likely turned a $20,000 item into one that went for $400,000. I have to think that consignor was pretty happy. He also took my Scrapps pieces and, through research, broke the mystery surrounding the issue, likely getting me more money in my pocket in the process.

Tom C

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

That is exactly the point. If I bid $5000 at the auction house and pay $6000 the seller gets paid based on the $5000 selling price. With Ebay they get paid based on the $6000 price. This thread is about which is better for the seller.
James

no..if you want to pay 6000 ....we have to assume buyers know the buyers premium....so if they want to pay 6000 they bid 5000 or so....20% BP (plus some sellers get some of that from the AH) on ebay you bid to $6000...seller loses 13% of that around..

so again its 20% versus 13%.....BP not a factor besides the total charges seller or buyer pays which have already been stated.. .its not like BP is a secret.....some people are willing to pay more total for the card than on Ebay for certain cards etc........but its not like theres magic BP that the buyer is not aware of...

a 1952 topps psa 8 Jackie robinson is on HA right now bid to 16k plus BP..i know I couldn't get 11k on it on ebay this year...so I wouldn't care about buyers paying BP on heritage.... this is just one example..

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no..if you want to pay 6000 ....we have to assume buyers know the buyers premium....so if they want to pay 6000 they bid 5000 or so....20% BP (plus some sellers get some of that from the AH) on ebay you bid to $6000...seller loses 13% of that around..

so again its 20% versus 13%.....BP not a factor besides the total charges seller or buyer pays which have already been stated.. .its not like BP is a secret.....some people are willing to pay more total for the card than on Ebay for certain cards etc........but its not like theres magic BP that the buyer is not aware of...

a 1952 topps psa 8 Jackie robinson is on HA right now bid to 16k plus BP..i know I couldn't get 11k on it on ebay this year...so I wouldn't care about buyers paying BP on heritage.... this is just one example..

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. Case closed. AH's are in real trouble. The dinosaurs bidding via this process will be gone in 10 years.

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. Case closed. AH's are in real trouble. The dinosaurs bidding via this process will be gone in 10 years.

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

What sites are charging a 15% seller's fee on 5k + cards? I think most sites would wave the seller's fee completely for cards like that, if not give a portion of the buyer's premium as well. You're still looking at 15-20% vs 8% but I wouldn't consign my cards to any AH charging a seller's fee.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

What sites are charging a 15% seller's fee on 5k + cards? I think most sites would wave the seller's fee completely for cards like that, if not give a portion of the buyer's premium as well. You're still looking at 15-20% vs 8% but I wouldn't consign my cards to any AH charging a seller's fee.

I think he's referring to the 15-20% buyers premium that we all take in account.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I think he's referring to the 15-20% buyers premium that we all take in account.

His mention of 35% vs 8% implies a 15-20% buyer's and seller's premium. My point is that I think this would be unusual on a high end, 5k+ card. I would think that even sites that normally charge this seller's premium would wave it to get high end cards in their auction. If they wouldn't, I certainly would not send my cards there.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Not sure where you guys are getting 13% at PWCC. They're 8% all-in on graded cards over $5K. It's on their consignment page. so the real analysis is 35% vs. 8%. .

You can't pick the best rate on one and the worst rate on another. $5K graded cards get 8% from PWCC but probably 0% - 5% sellers premium to go with the 20% buyers premium. So that's 8% vs 19% - 24% (not 20% - 25% if you do the math).

For lower value cards the rate is higher for both. But no matter how you slice it, the AH is a lot higher. By using PWCC you get all the advantages of the AH, they do the work and shipping, have many loyal customers, etc.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

You can be assured there is the same amount or more shilling going on at AH's than with E-bay, you just don't see it because AH's don't allow you to see their bidding.

Shilling with an auction house seems seems far more risky than on eBay, where a shill bidder can simply retract their bid once they find a bidder's max bid. There are routinely auctions posted on here from eBay in which bidders have dozens of retracted bids.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Shilling with an auction house seems seems far more risky than on eBay, where a shill bidder can simply retract their bid once they find a bidder's max bid. There are routinely auctions posted on here from eBay in which bidders have dozens of retracted bids.

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

I am not sure I follow you. Even though a person can't see the bidding history at an auction house, how often do you see the high bid go to, say, $10,000 at an auction house then back down an increment? If there are all these retracted bids with an auction house, why does the winning bid almost never go back down?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

If I told you that there are far more retractions on AH's than on e-bay, you'd tell me to prove it. Exactly my point.

How do you retract a bid at an AH? Don't you have to contact them? That would seem awkward for the shiller

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

How do you retract a bid at an AH? Don't you have to contact them? That would seem awkward for the shiller

It is awkward and rarely done. Ignorance is bliss. AH's don't allow retractions unless it's some kind of extraordinary issue. On the shilling situation I would guess it is 100x worse on ebay than AH's. Both ebay and AH's have a spot in our hobby and I see both continuing to do well for the forseeable future.

[Republicaninmass]

You wouldn't see the bid go down, you get a call the next day

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

You can't pick the best rate on one and the worst rate on another.

Agreed. Not sure where someone got that AH 35% happy-talk from? I have sold on both eBay and AH for years, very rare to get a seller's commission on AH for most cards/any value and if so, I would avoid. In fact, some AH's will negotiate a percentage back to seller off hammer price.

There are pros and cons for each. Some notes (IMO) below ..

AH - PROS: Auction format (buyers), focus on collectibles/appeal to collectors, no reprints/garbage or sifting through, generally a better quality of merchandise/rarer items, no PayPal, no fees to consignors (generally), harder to retract bids, AH assumes work and cost to list, print (those who have catalogs) and ship, a few AH's will work with TPGs to re-grade, re-slab damaged holders, usually better scans and descriptions. CONS: Too many AHs, hard to keep track of who, what, when. Buyer commissions (I've seen 12.5% to 22%), limited reach/audience, some charge ridiculous shipping ("handling") fees on top of buyer commission, sales tax where applicable factors/erodes into what buyers will bid, longer wait to be paid, usually only pay by check/MO, some AH's pass on PayPal/CC fees to buyer, auction format can be risky for sellers w/out reserve or minimum bid.

EBay - PROS: No buyer commission, broader reach/audience, quicker (you don't have to wait for the next auction), do it yourself formats, easy shipping, no sales tax (for sales under $20K + 200 items annually - some charge sales tax for sales within state), pay by CC/PayPal, easy to identify sellers you'd like to avoid. CONS: FVF (Final Value Fees) usually at/about 10%, PayPal fees on top of, sometimes listing fees as well, difficult feedback policy for sellers, can get unwarranted/unfair buyer feedback which is hard to remove, fraudulent listings, does little to shut down bad listings or sellers (especially if the seller does a lot of business w/eBay), endless BIN ridiculous listings/prices, hard to weed out junk/reprints, eBay customer service is awful.

Shill bidding can happen on both - a lot of hyperbole, hard to prove. Consigning on PWCC, Probstein, etc - basically you're having them do the work of listing and shipping for you. You get the benefit of their name/reach/familiarization but also increased cost of middle-man.

I don't see it as a definite one over the other - both have advantages and some disadvantages. Depends on what you want to do, when and weighing them out. I also like to buy/sell here - Net54 has it's own set of advantages worthy of consideration.

Again, just my opinion .. respectful of others, but never came close to knowing or realizing 35% noted on AHs.