2016 Hall of Fame Ballot, Who would you vote for?

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Based off public opinion. Run a Google search.

I did run a google search. I am not up-to-date on all the PED suspensions so I had to run one before commenting. That is when I realized there was no reason to suspect him other than...

Originally Posted by packs

It may be circumstantial and guilt by association...

Who are we to use assumptions to judge people? I am just not ok to accuse someone when no investigation, testing, or even name leaks have pointed to someone. Just because someone got larger in their 20s?

[packs]

There are countless stories about Bagwell addressing PED suspicions. I'm not sure what it was you searched to come up with nothing. Also voters are the ones to make assumptions about players, because voting someone into the HOF is an opinion. So in the court of public opinion, assumptions and speculation come into play when rendering an opinion. You're not making a legal argument to get into the HOF, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

There are countless stories about Bagwell addressing PED suspicions. I'm not sure what it was you searched to come up with nothing.

Google search: PED Bagwell

Do I need more key words to find the "evidence"? Just because people speculate and asked him still is nothing. I don't find any more evidence than if I type in "PED Griffey". I didn't say there wasn't speculation, but I said there was no evidence and has never been named (outside of speculation/assumptions).

Originally Posted by packs

Also voters are the ones to make assumptions about players, because voting someone into the HOF is an opinion. So in the court of public opinion, assumptions and speculation come into play when rendering an opinion.

I know the voters make assumptions, but it doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by packs

You're not making a legal argument to get into the HOF, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Why does it have to be a legal argument to know that it is morally and ethically wrong to judge someone based off assumptions? Legal standards were suppose to be based off what should be common decency. I don't have to be in a court room to be decent towards a fellow human being.

All this said I am not declaring that Bagwell was clean, but who are we to say he wasn't just because someone else made the assumption and it is the popular belief even without a shred of evidence?

He did use muscle builders, but none of them were banned at the time of use. That is what we KNOW and if someone wants to use that against him, than fine at least they are using facts.

[Beatles Guy]

Bagwell was also top 10 in MVP voting six times while winning it once. I think was impresses me most are two things I didn't remember; he stole over 200 bases in his career (including over 30 per season twice) and averaged 114 runs scored for his career.

To me, he was the Frank Thomas of the NL with better speed. Thomas hung around a little too long and padded his numbers, Bagwell hung it up a 37 with something still in the tank.

[KCRfan1]

If Ortiz gets in the Hall, that may open the flood gates for other PED users to get into the Hall. Ortiz fails a test, and comments " I don't know what happened "? Yeah, bewildering isn't it. It's an unsolved mystery. Bagwell has been convicted in the court of public opinion due to the era he played, with nothing to back up PED usage, other than some people " thinking ".

[packs]

Bagwell admitted taking Andro in 1998. It wasn't banned until 2004, but that admission might stick in the minds of voters. You asked a question I am only giving you reasonable answers as to why perception is what it is. I'm not against you or anything.

[KCRfan1]

You're right PACKS. Perception is the reality, and that appears to be enough for voters to keep Bagwell out of the Hall.

[Head928]

What about some love for Jeff Kent?....his numbers are there

[Head928]

What about some love for Jeff Kent?....his numbers are there

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

If Ortiz gets in the Hall, that may open the flood gates for other PED users to get into the Hall. Ortiz fails a test, and comments " I don't know what happened "? Yeah, bewildering isn't it. It's an unsolved mystery. Bagwell has been convicted in the court of public opinion due to the era he played, with nothing to back up PED usage, other than some people " thinking ".

Not only that, remember he vowed that he "will not rest" until he found out how this ghastly mistake was made!

[earlywynnfan]

Schilling
Piazza
Junior
Trevor Hoffman

[clydepepper]

Ken Griffey, Jr.
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Mike Mussina
Alan Trammell
Jeff Bagwell
Trevor Hoffman
Jeff Kent
Billy Wagner

I don't think there is enough 'evidence' on Piazza or Bagwell to warrant their exclusion: Piazza had 'backne' and I never heard anything specific about Bagwell...other than being a gym rat at working out.
.
.