Bob Gibson 80 today. Any memories???

[brianp-beme]

So far with the anecdotes it sounds like Bob was at his surliest between the late 80's and late 90's. Perhaps he just had a rough decade.

Brian

[Howe’s Hunter]

Having lived in Omaha for the past 11 years, I've often wondered where the ghetto here in town was at that time. From everyone I've spoken to who knew him in high school, at Creighton, etc., he came from a working class family in mid-town. Not exactly what you would call ghetto by any stretch of the imagination.

Guessing the title "From Middle-Class to Upper Crust" wouldn't sell as many books.

[packs]

I got his autograph at a Gloria Rothstein show in the mid 90s. I still have a picture of me standing in front of his table and him looking down at the floor. I was maybe 10 and never liked the guy after that.

But Seaver was there too and he even let me behind the table. To this day I still collect Seaver.

[timn1]

Have to say I get a little weary of the inevitable "he was mean to me" anecdotes that appear in threads like this one, in reference to ALMOST any and every player. Yeah, a few players are saints who are nice to everybody. And probably only a few are really incapable of being nice to anyone. Overall, athletes are no more or less "nice" than any other group of people. Why should we expect them to be?

But unlike most of us, athletes have to constantly encounter strangers who feel that they know them and who expect to be treated like instant friends. I know that as problems go, this is a far cry from being ill or homeless, but I think (if I were a celebrity) I would find it an unbearable drain on my time and energy, especially as I got older.

You could say, well then former players who feel that way all the time should avoid doing signing shows, and that's reasonable. Probably a lot of the least sociable ones do (or don't get asked).

My guess is that a lot of the ones in between, especially the older guys who played before the huge salaries and could use the money, convince themselves that it won't be so bad and try to have fun at the shows they do. But on a bad day something gets under their skin (like a pushy or obnoxious fan) and things go downhill from there. That is why with most of them (like Gibson, Mays, Mantle, Seaver, etc etc) you will get person A saying "he was mean to me" and person B saying "he was nice to me." A lot depends on the demeanor of the specific fans meeting them too. (I'm not calling anybody out here- more likely it was not how you acted as much as how the people just ahead of you in line acted.)

I guess too that since I have never been interested in talking to players, even ones I really like, I really don't care that much whether they are nice in these brief encounters with individual fans. I think it's more interesting to think about their larger impact on the game and the culture. (Another way to put this: can you see Jackie Robinson being "sweet" and "nice" to every fan he met at a signing show? Neither can I. To some but not all.)

To me Gibson belongs in that pioneering group w/ Jackie. We tend to forget he was only the 2nd black Cy Young winner (1968), and the first black pitcher in the HOF who was fully MLB (after Satchel).

Also, he wasn't the first black Cardinals player, but St Louis was probably the toughest city in MLB for blacks to play at the time. (Check out the autobios of Gibson, Flood, etc. etc. for accounts of this.) He put up with a lot.

IOW, I say honor the man even if he wasn't necessarily "nice" to everybody or to you-

[tachyonbb]

Ed, I grew up in Omaha and still live there. I am a few years younger than Bob Gibson but my brother played against him in high school.
Bob's father died a couple of months before he was born and he was raised by his mother in what we called the "projects". They were built during the depression to provide low income housing and by the 50's they were deteriorating. High density 3 story buildings with very little parking and small rooms. Roofs leaked, the water mains were not buried deep enough and would freeze leaving whole building without water until spring. The place was a dump. It was surrounded by 6 ft. chain link fence with three strands of barb wire on top. That was to keep "those people" away from the neighborhoods to their west. I think they were called the "Logan Fontanelle project" When I was in high school it was where you went to get girls, guns or drugs. When I came back after college it was called "Little Vietnam" and gang violence was rampant. It was torn down in the 90's.
Bob went to Tech High and it was predominantly African American. They would start 4 black kids in basketball and have one token white. If they got behind they would go to 5 black kids at home. On the road they would go 3 blacks and and 2 whites. I remember going to a game at what was then a white school, and the crowd called out the "N" word whenever a black player was shooting a free throw.

[timn1]

Really interesting post!

Originally Posted by tachyonbb

Ed, I grew up in Omaha and still live there. I am a few years younger than Bob Gibson but my brother played against him in high school.
Bob's father died a couple of months before he was born and he was raised by his mother in what we called the "projects". They were built during the depression to provide low income housing and by the 50's they were deteriorating. High density 3 story buildings with very little parking and small rooms. Roofs leaked, the water mains were not buried deep enough and would freeze leaving whole building without water until spring. The place was a dump. It was surrounded by 6 ft. chain link fence with three strands of barb wire on top. That was to keep "those people" away from the neighborhoods to their west. I think they were called the "Logan Fontanelle project" When I was in high school it was where you went to get girls, guns or drugs. When I came back after college it was called "Little Vietnam" and gang violence was rampant. It was torn down in the 90's.
Bob went to Tech High and it was predominantly African American. They would start 4 black kids in basketball and have one token white. If they got behind they would go to 5 black kids at home. On the road they would go 3 blacks and and 2 whites. I remember going to a game at what was then a white school, and the crowd called out the "N" word whenever a black player was shooting a free throw.

[doug.goodman]

He signed this 8 1/2 X 11 magazine cutout for me at Candlestick back in the late 70s or early 80s. I was just some dork hanging out by the visiting dugout, along with however many other people. He was super nice and signed in a great spot.

I haven't asked the people who get paid for their opinions to look at it, so I suppose he could have faked it. Ha!

Doug

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by timn1

Have to say I get a little weary of the inevitable "he was mean to me" anecdotes that appear in threads like this one, in reference to ALMOST any and every player. Yeah, a few players are saints who are nice to everybody. And probably only a few are really incapable of being nice to anyone. Overall, athletes are no more or less "nice" than any other group of people. Why should we expect them to be?

But unlike most of us, athletes have to constantly encounter strangers who feel that they know them and who expect to be treated like instant friends. I know that as problems go, this is a far cry from being ill or homeless, but I think (if I were a celebrity) I would find it an unbearable drain on my time and energy, especially as I got older.

You could say, well then former players who feel that way all the time should avoid doing signing shows, and that's reasonable. Probably a lot of the least sociable ones do (or don't get asked).

My guess is that a lot of the ones in between, especially the older guys who played before the huge salaries and could use the money, convince themselves that it won't be so bad and try to have fun at the shows they do. But on a bad day something gets under their skin (like a pushy or obnoxious fan) and things go downhill from there. That is why with most of them (like Gibson, Mays, Mantle, Seaver, etc etc) you will get person A saying "he was mean to me" and person B saying "he was nice to me." A lot depends on the demeanor of the specific fans meeting them too. (I'm not calling anybody out here- more likely it was not how you acted as much as how the people just ahead of you in line acted.)

I guess too that since I have never been interested in talking to players, even ones I really like, I really don't care that much whether they are nice in these brief encounters with individual fans. I think it's more interesting to think about their larger impact on the game and the culture. (Another way to put this: can you see Jackie Robinson being "sweet" and "nice" to every fan he met at a signing show? Neither can I. To some but not all.)

To me Gibson belongs in that pioneering group w/ Jackie. We tend to forget he was only the 2nd black Cy Young winner (1968), and the first black pitcher in the HOF who was fully MLB (after Satchel).

Also, he wasn't the first black Cardinals player, but St Louis was probably the toughest city in MLB for blacks to play at the time. (Check out the autobios of Gibson, Flood, etc. etc. for accounts of this.) He put up with a lot.

IOW, I say honor the man even if he wasn't necessarily "nice" to everybody or to you-

Well, yes and no.

Yes, Gibson and many others went through some unfair BS, and yes they were all financially exploited, but this is decades later and they are very well paid to be public personalities at events and shows. They don't have to be buddy-buddy with fans on the street if that's not in their natures, but in the context of an event where the players are providing a fee for service, they need to be professionals about it. If not being rude to kids and being polite to the customers and reasonable about their requests as to how you perform that service for which they are paying is just too taxing a way to earn several thousand dollars a day, stay home. Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

[ls7plus]

Nobody ever danced around the bases, celebrating a homerun hit off Gibson twice! He couldn't keep Frank Robinson from crowding the plate on him, though--he'd knock F. Robby down, and Frank would just get back up and take the very same position in the batter's box--another HOF'er who was mentally tough to the nth degree.

Very interesting thread,

Larry

[timn1]

Hey Adam,
You're a pal and I respect your views, but this is where I have to differ:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

Maybe you have a higher tolerance for dealing with the public than I would, but I would not "love" to do that (sign and schmooze). Pretty sure I would hate it, and so would a lot of people.

I'm sure a lot of these guys see it this way: being an athlete is my work. Having to chat up random people is not.

You can say then they shouldn't do public shows, and I already agreed that is reasonable. In an ideal world only the sweethearts would do them, and everybody would love it. But I also suggested an explanation for why it doesn't always work out ideally that I think helps to make sense of their behavior.

[ALR-bishop]

Considering authenticity issues and human nature, makes me glad I never got into autos. I have yet to have a piece of cardboard show me attitude. And if one does I could soak it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by timn1

You can say then they shouldn't do public shows, and I already agreed that is reasonable. In an ideal world only the sweethearts would do them, and everybody would love it. But I also suggested an explanation for why it doesn't always work out ideally that I think helps to make sense of their behavior.

Explanation, perhaps. Excuse, no way. No one who acts like a jerk at a show should do any more of them. If an athlete finds it distasteful to deal with the general public, he can always reject the offer to do a show. A HOFer is not going to lack for signing work. He can do private signings through an agent or web site and never interact with the people he obviously disdains. What irks me is when an athlete shows up, repeatedly, at the National or at a show, and then is surly or churlish with the customers. I don't buy any excuse for not bringing a professional attitude to the performance. They're getting paid thousands of dollars to sign their names and smile at the people who want nothing more than a polite 'hello' from someone they probably grew up admiring. It may not be fun but it ain't exactly coal mining...

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well, yes and no.

Yes, Gibson and many others went through some unfair BS, and yes they were all financially exploited, but this is decades later and they are very well paid to be public personalities at events and shows. They don't have to be buddy-buddy with fans on the street if that's not in their natures, but in the context of an event where the players are providing a fee for service, they need to be professionals about it. If not being rude to kids and being polite to the customers and reasonable about their requests as to how you perform that service for which they are paying is just too taxing a way to earn several thousand dollars a day, stay home. Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

Well said.

My current boss has an amazing ability to not only be friendly to the public no matter the situation, but his "photo face" is exactly the same whether it's 5 am or 5 pm and believe me, at 5 am, there is considerable effort involved, but as he has said to me "it's part of the gig I signed up for".

I have worked for a lot of people who would disagree with that last part, and to be honest, I have mixed emotions as to if being nice all the time is part of the gig, but it certainly makes for happy fans.

Doug

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by packs

I got his autograph at a Gloria Rothstein show in the mid 90s. I still have a picture of me standing in front of his table and him looking down at the floor. I was maybe 10 and never liked the guy after that.

But Seaver was there too and he even let me behind the table. To this day I still collect Seaver.

The thought of Gibson and Seaver brings back fond memories of their 1 hour & 45 minute pitching duels, throwing the next pitch like they were double parked!