Bob Gibson 80 today. Any memories???

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by timn1

Have to say I get a little weary of the inevitable "he was mean to me" anecdotes that appear in threads like this one, in reference to ALMOST any and every player. Yeah, a few players are saints who are nice to everybody. And probably only a few are really incapable of being nice to anyone. Overall, athletes are no more or less "nice" than any other group of people. Why should we expect them to be?

But unlike most of us, athletes have to constantly encounter strangers who feel that they know them and who expect to be treated like instant friends. I know that as problems go, this is a far cry from being ill or homeless, but I think (if I were a celebrity) I would find it an unbearable drain on my time and energy, especially as I got older.

You could say, well then former players who feel that way all the time should avoid doing signing shows, and that's reasonable. Probably a lot of the least sociable ones do (or don't get asked).

My guess is that a lot of the ones in between, especially the older guys who played before the huge salaries and could use the money, convince themselves that it won't be so bad and try to have fun at the shows they do. But on a bad day something gets under their skin (like a pushy or obnoxious fan) and things go downhill from there. That is why with most of them (like Gibson, Mays, Mantle, Seaver, etc etc) you will get person A saying "he was mean to me" and person B saying "he was nice to me." A lot depends on the demeanor of the specific fans meeting them too. (I'm not calling anybody out here- more likely it was not how you acted as much as how the people just ahead of you in line acted.)

I guess too that since I have never been interested in talking to players, even ones I really like, I really don't care that much whether they are nice in these brief encounters with individual fans. I think it's more interesting to think about their larger impact on the game and the culture. (Another way to put this: can you see Jackie Robinson being "sweet" and "nice" to every fan he met at a signing show? Neither can I. To some but not all.)

To me Gibson belongs in that pioneering group w/ Jackie. We tend to forget he was only the 2nd black Cy Young winner (1968), and the first black pitcher in the HOF who was fully MLB (after Satchel).

Also, he wasn't the first black Cardinals player, but St Louis was probably the toughest city in MLB for blacks to play at the time. (Check out the autobios of Gibson, Flood, etc. etc. for accounts of this.) He put up with a lot.

IOW, I say honor the man even if he wasn't necessarily "nice" to everybody or to you-

Well, yes and no.

Yes, Gibson and many others went through some unfair BS, and yes they were all financially exploited, but this is decades later and they are very well paid to be public personalities at events and shows. They don't have to be buddy-buddy with fans on the street if that's not in their natures, but in the context of an event where the players are providing a fee for service, they need to be professionals about it. If not being rude to kids and being polite to the customers and reasonable about their requests as to how you perform that service for which they are paying is just too taxing a way to earn several thousand dollars a day, stay home. Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

[ls7plus]

Nobody ever danced around the bases, celebrating a homerun hit off Gibson twice! He couldn't keep Frank Robinson from crowding the plate on him, though--he'd knock F. Robby down, and Frank would just get back up and take the very same position in the batter's box--another HOF'er who was mentally tough to the nth degree.

Very interesting thread,

Larry

[timn1]

Hey Adam,
You're a pal and I respect your views, but this is where I have to differ:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

Maybe you have a higher tolerance for dealing with the public than I would, but I would not "love" to do that (sign and schmooze). Pretty sure I would hate it, and so would a lot of people.

I'm sure a lot of these guys see it this way: being an athlete is my work. Having to chat up random people is not.

You can say then they shouldn't do public shows, and I already agreed that is reasonable. In an ideal world only the sweethearts would do them, and everybody would love it. But I also suggested an explanation for why it doesn't always work out ideally that I think helps to make sense of their behavior.

[ALR-bishop]

Considering authenticity issues and human nature, makes me glad I never got into autos. I have yet to have a piece of cardboard show me attitude. And if one does I could soak it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by timn1

You can say then they shouldn't do public shows, and I already agreed that is reasonable. In an ideal world only the sweethearts would do them, and everybody would love it. But I also suggested an explanation for why it doesn't always work out ideally that I think helps to make sense of their behavior.

Explanation, perhaps. Excuse, no way. No one who acts like a jerk at a show should do any more of them. If an athlete finds it distasteful to deal with the general public, he can always reject the offer to do a show. A HOFer is not going to lack for signing work. He can do private signings through an agent or web site and never interact with the people he obviously disdains. What irks me is when an athlete shows up, repeatedly, at the National or at a show, and then is surly or churlish with the customers. I don't buy any excuse for not bringing a professional attitude to the performance. They're getting paid thousands of dollars to sign their names and smile at the people who want nothing more than a polite 'hello' from someone they probably grew up admiring. It may not be fun but it ain't exactly coal mining...

[CurtisFlood]

I saw Gibson pitch a game against the Padres in the early seventies and he pitched a complete game 9-4 win. He struck out 10, gave up ten hits, but hit a three run homer himself.

To cap it off a fast Padre hit a high hopper between the mound and second base. Gibson leaped in the air and with his back to first fired backhanded to first and beat the runner by a half step. Very Globetrotter like play.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

I saw Gibson pitch a game against the Padres in the early seventies and he pitched a complete game 9-4 win. He struck out 10, gave up ten hits, but hit a three run homer himself.

To cap it off a fast Padre hit a high hopper between the mound and second base. Gibson leaped in the air and with his back to first fired backhanded to first and beat the runner by a half step. Very Globetrotter like play.

The single A Pudres? Who'd a thunk? The more they change, the more they remain the same. Today, Kimbrel for four magic beans from Bean Town. Call it what is: a salary dump a la Tom Werner's fire sale. Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. Outrage overcame me.

[KCRfan1]

Fun Fact: Gibson has more complete games than he does wins!

255 complete games and 251 wins

[Edward]

He walked me intentionally.
What a chicken.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by pclpads

The single A Pudres? Who'd a thunk? The more they change, the more they remain the same. Today, Kimbrel for four magic beans from Bean Town. Call it what is: a salary dump a la Tom Werner's fire sale. Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. Outrage overcame me.

Sorry man, I remember watching Tony Gwynn get his 2000th hit back in about 1993. Longest standing ovation I have ever witnessed in person at a ballpark. He was one of my favorite non Cardinals.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well, yes and no.

Yes, Gibson and many others went through some unfair BS, and yes they were all financially exploited, but this is decades later and they are very well paid to be public personalities at events and shows. They don't have to be buddy-buddy with fans on the street if that's not in their natures, but in the context of an event where the players are providing a fee for service, they need to be professionals about it. If not being rude to kids and being polite to the customers and reasonable about their requests as to how you perform that service for which they are paying is just too taxing a way to earn several thousand dollars a day, stay home. Don't deign to work at something that most people would love to work at.

Well said.

My current boss has an amazing ability to not only be friendly to the public no matter the situation, but his "photo face" is exactly the same whether it's 5 am or 5 pm and believe me, at 5 am, there is considerable effort involved, but as he has said to me "it's part of the gig I signed up for".

I have worked for a lot of people who would disagree with that last part, and to be honest, I have mixed emotions as to if being nice all the time is part of the gig, but it certainly makes for happy fans.

Doug