Tell me what under valued players or cards you feel need to rise in price

[jason.1969]

Maybe. But at some point the question "Why Mantle?" can only be answered with "Because he's the most valuable." And then the emperor has no clothes.

I suspect now a ton of today's buyers either saw him play or grew up on great stories from parents or grandparents who saw him play. The rest are speculators who rely on this first group for their bubbles not to burst.

[Rookiemonster]

@pokerply80 no doubt mantle was the best player on the team . ( I never seen him play ) ford was the best pitcher and ace of the staff and served in the Korean War in prime years . I think the price of his cards drive his infamy with in the hobby . I'm 34 years old I grew up only reading the becket price guide and seeing all his card leading the way . That was the only reason I wanted them at the time . There were no notable Stan Musial , frank robinsons . It became the chase for something unattainable . I do see mantle cards slowing down or going the other way with the next gerations .

[pokerplyr80]

I'm 35 and growing up the 52 Mantle was the ultimate dream card. I was a big baseball fan and new some history, but as for the cards I just knew his were the most valuable and didn't question why. Whatever the reason, or reasons, it has been the case for quite a while and don't see it changing. I agree with peter's statement that this belief will be passed down to future collectors, with or without valid reasons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Duende or whatever else you want to call it goes a long way. Look at the Namath rookie -- most experts would not rank him among the 100 best players ever.

[CharleyBrown]

My opinion is, of course, influenced by what has been my collecting and research focus over the years, but I believe that the 1947-1949 Jackie Robinson Bond Bread set is tremendously undervalued. It's amazing to me that Jackie's true rookie card (Portrait card) can be had for less than $2,000 in NRMT shape.

I believe the reason why it's undervalued has to do with the misguided belief that the card was a regional release. However, recent findings have proven that to not be the case, and the set should no longer be deemed regional IMO.

[brian1961]

Hey Shaun,

Your thread response regarding the rare Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set has been on my mind off and on for days. I want to sympathize with you over your frustration and chagrin that your favorite Jackie Robinson set has not zoomed in value as you believe in your guts it should have. The set has a lot going for it. For a set composed of black 'n white pictures devoted to one player, it is highly significant that the player is Jackie Robinson, and the years of issue were his rookie year, and a few thereafter.

You express the feeling that the set is "sub-par" because of its regional nature. I well remember you revealing some of your research on the subject of the distribution area; to wit, they may have been offered not only in the predominantly Black-American community in Brooklyn near their Bond Bakery, but other areas of the country with a heavy Black-American population where Bond bakery items were sold.

Historically, this set has always been very rare and extremely hard to get, Shaun. I know for a fact it intrigued serious collectors in a big way in the 70s and 80s when our hobby was becoming a mammoth. But you very well know this. What your beliefs may not have embraced is the faulty reasoning that because a card is not mainstream, it is less appealing, less popular, less desirable, and therefore less valuable.

Some regionals are immensely desirable. Some are not. Some are immensely popular, well-documented and well-covered in hobby literature (and hobby chat forums) and thus well-known. Others are seemingly as well-hidden in a wilderness as an American sniper.

A vast majority of post-war collectors go for the mainstream; tis so true. The few who take a different brook, and wind up loving the beauty and extreme challenge of regional cards are equally fulfilled, to a point. Their collecting of regionals is frequently unfulfilled because those cards are so dreadfully difficult to track down---EVEN WITH MAJOR AUCTION HOUSE OFFERINGS AND EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The regional collectors will often not talk much about their prizes, nor write about them. It took me a long time to figure out a prime reason why after decades of frustration over the fact the tough regionals were not adequately covered in Sports Collectors Digest during its heyday. It requires of lot of time and effort to write a good article about a difficult set such as a regional. One of the prime factors is whether or not you can locate a collector, former collector, dealer, or individual who was a part of the original promotion that was offering the free prizes to goose sales of their product.

Back in the day they were issued, it wasn't that big a deal. Nobody paid much attention to any of it. Even some pioneer collectors did not retain much knowledge of the original promotion, and all the ins and outs us regional collectors would dream of knowing.

So, to find someone who knows something interesting and pertinent about a given set, AND IS WILLING TO SING LIKE A BIRD ABOUT ALL THAT THEY KNOW, is as rare as the cards themselves. Then again, we're at 2015, most of the people and kids who collected the free prizes from what I term, "THE GOLDEN QUARTER CENTURY 1947 - 1971" are quickly becoming a part of The Paul Revere Foundation seen in the classic Bugs Bunny cartoon, "HOT CROSS BUNNY", whose motto is "Hardly a Man is Now Alive". I'm 61, started collecting in '61, and my earliest baseball card memories involves the Post Cereal. The ten-year-old kid in '47-'50 who collected those Bond Bread Jackies is now 75-78 years old. Most men die before then, even if they're living a little longer.

Remember when I said that to find someone who has great knowledge of the Bond cards and something great to share may be rarer than the cards themselves? A key reason for not sharing is because they're trying to collect the cards as well, and if they share what they know, the cards will increase in popularity, and zoom in price more than they are, and it will become nigh unto impossible for them to get those Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons.

Rob Lifson speaks very highly of them, as you probably know.

Most collectors are still pretty unaware of the set. They're also so obsessed with rookie cards, and cards of the major stars. They like and respect Jackie Robinson, but would just assume get their Robinson fix from a Topps or even a Leaf. The Bonds have it all over a Leaf in eye appeal. Again, collectors dig rarity, and a superb story. Shaun, keep building the Bond story, and present it to the hobby. I'm rootin' for you.

As a parting shot, a regional is a rare gem worth a havin', if it's beautiful. Think of Baltimore News Babe Ruth, Washington Times Ty Cobb, Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, Wilson Franks Ted Williams, Bell Brand Sandy Koufax, Mother's Cookies Henry Aaron and a few other cards made much later that I don't have, still want, but don't wish to divulge---because I still feel I have a chance at them!

Kind regards, Brian Powell

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hey Shaun,

Your thread response regarding the rare Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set has been on my mind off and on for days. I want to sympathize with you over your frustration and chagrin that your favorite Jackie Robinson set has not zoomed in value as you believe in your guts it should have. The set has a lot going for it. For a set composed of black 'n white pictures devoted to one player, it is highly significant that the player is Jackie Robinson, and the years of issue were his rookie year, and a few thereafter.

You express the feeling that the set is "sub-par" because of its regional nature. I well remember you revealing some of your research on the subject of the distribution area; to wit, they may have been offered not only in the predominantly Black-American community in Brooklyn near their Bond Bakery, but other areas of the country with a heavy Black-American population where Bond bakery items were sold.

Historically, this set has always been very rare and extremely hard to get, Shaun. I know for a fact it intrigued serious collectors in a big way in the 70s and 80s when our hobby was becoming a mammoth. But you very well know this. What your beliefs may not have embraced is the faulty reasoning that because a card is not mainstream, it is less appealing, less popular, less desirable, and therefore less valuable.

Some regionals are immensely desirable. Some are not. Some are immensely popular, well-documented and well-covered in hobby literature (and hobby chat forums) and thus well-known. Others are seemingly as well-hidden in a wilderness as an American sniper.

A vast majority of post-war collectors go for the mainstream; tis so true. The few who take a different brook, and wind up loving the beauty and extreme challenge of regional cards are equally fulfilled, to a point. Their collecting of regionals is frequently unfulfilled because those cards are so dreadfully difficult to track down---EVEN WITH MAJOR AUCTION HOUSE OFFERINGS AND EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The regional collectors will often not talk much about their prizes, nor write about them. It took me a long time to figure out a prime reason why after decades of frustration over the fact the tough regionals were not adequately covered in Sports Collectors Digest during its heyday. It requires of lot of time and effort to write a good article about a difficult set such as a regional. One of the prime factors is whether or not you can locate a collector, former collector, dealer, or individual who was a part of the original promotion that was offering the free prizes to goose sales of their product.

Back in the day they were issued, it wasn't that big a deal. Nobody paid much attention to any of it. Even some pioneer collectors did not retain much knowledge of the original promotion, and all the ins and outs us regional collectors would dream of knowing.

So, to find someone who knows something interesting and pertinent about a given set, AND IS WILLING TO SING LIKE A BIRD ABOUT ALL THAT THEY KNOW, is as rare as the cards themselves. Then again, we're at 2015, most of the people and kids who collected the free prizes from what I term, "THE GOLDEN QUARTER CENTURY 1947 - 1971" are quickly becoming a part of The Paul Revere Foundation seen in the classic Bugs Bunny cartoon, "HOT CROSS BUNNY", whose motto is "Hardly a Man is Now Alive". I'm 61, started collecting in '61, and my earliest baseball card memories involves the Post Cereal. The ten-year-old kid in '47-'50 who collected those Bond Bread Jackies are now 75-78 years old. Most men die before then, even if they're living a little longer.

Remember when I said that to find someone who has great knowledge of the Bond cards and something great to share may be rarer than the cards themselves? A key reason for not sharing is because they're trying to collect the cards as well, and if they share what they know, the cards will increase in popularity, and zoom in price more than they are, and it will become nigh unto impossible for them to get those Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons.

Rob Lifson speaks very highly of them, as you probably know.

Most collectors are still pretty unaware of the set. They're also so obsessed with rookie cards, and cards of the major stars. They like and respect Jackie Robinson, but would just assume get their Robinson fix from a Topps or even a Leaf. The Bonds have it all over a Leaf in eye appeal. Again, collectors dig rarity, and a superb story. Shaun, keep building the Bond story, and present it to the hobby. I'm rootin' for you.

As a parting shot, a regional is a rare gem worth a havin', if it's beautiful. Think of Baltimore News Babe Ruth, Washington Times Ty Cobb, Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, Wilson Franks Ted Williams, Bell Brand Sandy Koufax, Mother's Cookies Henry Aaron and a few other cards made much later that I don't have, still want, but don't wish to divulge---because I still feel I have a chance at them!

Kind regards, Brian Powell

Just wanted to comment on what a great post that was. I really enjoyed reading it.

I love the obscure or esoteric cards myself.

[CharleyBrown]

Brian,

Thank you for your post. I've read it 2-3 times, and I can't help but acknowledge how well-thought-out and accurate it was. You raise many good points in it - and I think you hit a homerun in describing what could be said is the gift and curse of regional sets.

For many of us collectors, the thrill is in the chase... and when that chase goes on for years just to find a single example of the card, it is easy to give up. My quest took 4+ years, and there were most certainly moments when I was ready to call it quits... what kept me going was researching the set as much as possible.

Anyhow, thank you for the encouraging words regarding the pursuit of filling in all the blanks of the Bond Bread story. I am almost there, and net54 has certainly be beyond helpful in terms of the support and connecting with other collectors who have also done research. I have a few details left to uncover, and I am hoping that a few leads that I have uncovered may soon fill in those missing pieces.

While work, family, and school have made it difficult to find the time needed to complete my article, I am more determined than ever to finish what I've started and help the hobby come to be more acquainted with the set.

Thanks again for your response Brian!!

Best,

Shaun

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hey Shaun,

Your thread response regarding the rare Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set has been on my mind off and on for days. I want to sympathize with you over your frustration and chagrin that your favorite Jackie Robinson set has not zoomed in value as you believe in your guts it should have. The set has a lot going for it. For a set composed of black 'n white pictures devoted to one player, it is highly significant that the player is Jackie Robinson, and the years of issue were his rookie year, and a few thereafter.

You express the feeling that the set is "sub-par" because of its regional nature. I well remember you revealing some of your research on the subject of the distribution area; to wit, they may have been offered not only in the predominantly Black-American community in Brooklyn near their Bond Bakery, but other areas of the country with a heavy Black-American population where Bond bakery items were sold.

Historically, this set has always been very rare and extremely hard to get, Shaun. I know for a fact it intrigued serious collectors in a big way in the 70s and 80s when our hobby was becoming a mammoth. But you very well know this. What your beliefs may not have embraced is the faulty reasoning that because a card is not mainstream, it is less appealing, less popular, less desirable, and therefore less valuable.

Some regionals are immensely desirable. Some are not. Some are immensely popular, well-documented and well-covered in hobby literature (and hobby chat forums) and thus well-known. Others are seemingly as well-hidden in a wilderness as an American sniper.

A vast majority of post-war collectors go for the mainstream; tis so true. The few who take a different brook, and wind up loving the beauty and extreme challenge of regional cards are equally fulfilled, to a point. Their collecting of regionals is frequently unfulfilled because those cards are so dreadfully difficult to track down---EVEN WITH MAJOR AUCTION HOUSE OFFERINGS AND EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The regional collectors will often not talk much about their prizes, nor write about them. It took me a long time to figure out a prime reason why after decades of frustration over the fact the tough regionals were not adequately covered in Sports Collectors Digest during its heyday. It requires of lot of time and effort to write a good article about a difficult set such as a regional. One of the prime factors is whether or not you can locate a collector, former collector, dealer, or individual who was a part of the original promotion that was offering the free prizes to goose sales of their product.

Back in the day they were issued, it wasn't that big a deal. Nobody paid much attention to any of it. Even some pioneer collectors did not retain much knowledge of the original promotion, and all the ins and outs us regional collectors would dream of knowing.

So, to find someone who knows something interesting and pertinent about a given set, AND IS WILLING TO SING LIKE A BIRD ABOUT ALL THAT THEY KNOW, is as rare as the cards themselves. Then again, we're at 2015, most of the people and kids who collected the free prizes from what I term, "THE GOLDEN QUARTER CENTURY 1947 - 1971" are quickly becoming a part of The Paul Revere Foundation seen in the classic Bugs Bunny cartoon, "HOT CROSS BUNNY", whose motto is "Hardly a Man is Now Alive". I'm 61, started collecting in '61, and my earliest baseball card memories involves the Post Cereal. The ten-year-old kid in '47-'50 who collected those Bond Bread Jackies are now 75-78 years old. Most men die before then, even if they're living a little longer.

Remember when I said that to find someone who has great knowledge of the Bond cards and something great to share may be rarer than the cards themselves? A key reason for not sharing is because they're trying to collect the cards as well, and if they share what they know, the cards will increase in popularity, and zoom in price more than they are, and it will become nigh unto impossible for them to get those Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons.

Rob Lifson speaks very highly of them, as you probably know.

Most collectors are still pretty unaware of the set. They're also so obsessed with rookie cards, and cards of the major stars. They like and respect Jackie Robinson, but would just assume get their Robinson fix from a Topps or even a Leaf. The Bonds have it all over a Leaf in eye appeal. Again, collectors dig rarity, and a superb story. Shaun, keep building the Bond story, and present it to the hobby. I'm rootin' for you.

As a parting shot, a regional is a rare gem worth a havin', if it's beautiful. Think of Baltimore News Babe Ruth, Washington Times Ty Cobb, Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, Wilson Franks Ted Williams, Bell Brand Sandy Koufax, Mother's Cookies Henry Aaron and a few other cards made much later that I don't have, still want, but don't wish to divulge---because I still feel I have a chance at them!

Kind regards, Brian Powell

[Gr8Beldini]

Deleted post

[Gr8Beldini]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Duende or whatever else you want to call it goes a long way. Look at the Namath rookie -- most experts would not rank him among the 100 best players ever.

No; but Namath might be the most iconic football player of all time. "Iconic" is what drives demand; not "better."

[ls7plus]

'56 Kahn's real rookie Frank Robinson--rare card, fantastic player, and first black manager.

Larry

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm 35 and growing up the 52 Mantle was the ultimate dream card. I was a big baseball fan and new some history, but as for the cards I just knew his were the most valuable and didn't question why. Whatever the reason, or reasons, it has been the case for quite a while and don't see it changing. I agree with peter's statement that this belief will be passed down to future collectors, with or without valid reasons.

I'm 38, and would concur with your assessment of Mantle's role in the hobby, which continues today but especially from when we were growing up. He's the king of the postwar hobby despite career stats and records because New York and the 1950's was the perfect intersection of time and place for baseball. When baseball nostalgia became a full-blown thing by the early 1990's (The Natural, Field of Dreams, card shops on every corner...) and the baby boomers wanted a piece of that nostalgia, they turned to Mickey Mantle. Forget that Ted Williams batted nearly 50 points higher for his career or that Stan Musial had 600+ more hits or that all things considered - Willie Mays was the best NY centerfielder - Mickey was the guy in those NYY pinstripes. Just how it worked out. I bought into the mystique too, but have to settle for my VG-ish '56 Topps Mantle instead of a '52 Grail or '51 Bowman.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I still think the Bowman 1951 Mays are way undervalued that have ok centering....there is no magical 1952 topps Mays to deal with like the 1951 mantle has to deal with..and the 1952 Topps Mays are taking off...I think the 1951 Mays Bowman grade for grade will get closer to their 1952 Topps counterparts at a surprising level....as we know 1951 Mantles are still very valuable but I just don't see the price jump with them compared to the magical Mantle 1952 Topps counterparts.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I still think the Bowman 1951 Mays are way undervalued that have ok centering....there is no magical 1952 topps Mays to deal with like the 1951 mantle has to deal with..and the 1952 Topps Mays are taking off...I think the 1951 Mays Bowman grade for grade will get closer to their 1952 Topps counterparts at a surprising level....as we know 1951 Mantles are still very valuable but I just don't see the price jump with them compared to the magical Mantle 1952 Topps counterparts.

I absolutely agree and most of mays cards are under valued .

As far as the bond bread I've noticed most collector have no idea about cards like this . Even some collector that would describe them self as hardcore .
They don't even know the story of 1952 mantle harbor dump .
I alway confused when I meet someone that says they collect cards and they really don't know much about it .

On that note it's hard for me to agree 100% on the notion that it will increase in value . It has to be wanted by all levels of collectors . While most to all the guys here I'm sure would love to have at least one of those bond bread cards . The average collector doesn't know they exist .

Whitey Ford will see an increase in his stuff but not his autographs because there everywhere .

The 60s pop up cards in good condition seem like they have room to grow because I always see pop examples and really tattered looking cards .

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I'm 38, and would concur with your assessment of Mantle's role in the hobby, which continues today but especially from when we were growing up. He's the king of the postwar hobby despite career stats and records because New York and the 1950's was the perfect intersection of time and place for baseball. When baseball nostalgia became a full-blown thing by the early 1990's (The Natural, Field of Dreams, card shops on every corner...) and the baby boomers wanted a piece of that nostalgia, they turned to Mickey Mantle. Forget that Ted Williams batted nearly 50 points higher for his career or that Stan Musial had 600+ more hits or that all things considered - Willie Mays was the best NY centerfielder - Mickey was the guy in those NYY pinstripes. Just how it worked out. I bought into the mystique too, but have to settle for my VG-ish '56 Topps Mantle instead of a '52 Grail or '51 Bowman.

The only Mantle card in my collection up until a couple of years ago was a beat up 58 world series batting foes Mantle/Aaron that might grade a 3 if I ever sent it in. I'm sure I never will. I've had it since I was a kid and I still love it. Only in the last year or so was I able to add a couple I always dreamed of. I'd still prefer better condition but they are cool to have. Hopefully you'll be able to add to your 56 as well.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The only Mantle card in my collection up until a couple of years ago was a beat up 58 world series batting foes Mantle/Aaron that might grade a 3 if I ever sent it in. I'm sure I never will. I've had it since I was a kid and I still love it. Only in the last year or so was I able to add a couple I always dreamed of. I'd still prefer better condition but they are cool to have. Hopefully you'll be able to add to your 56 as well.

I too had the '58 Mantle / Aaron as a kid, and thought it was about the coolest thing in the world. 😀 I can still see it sitting there in a thick screw-down case under showcase glass at the old Red Lantern hobby shop in Cotswold Mall in Charlotte, NC. Persuaded my mom to shell out for it; can't remember what the price tag was, but had to be under $100. I eventually traded that one (must have been VG-ish, and I recall it being off-center) and replaced it much later as a young adult in my 20's with a real nice one - like EX-MT to NM and well-centered. That one lasted only a few years before falling victim to what I now refer to as my "dealer-scum" phase, where I wound up gradually buying way more cards than I could afford....and of course had to sell most of them off.

The '56 Topps Mantle is one that (fortunately) I held on to from childhood. Traded everything I carried into a shop for it one day along about 1990. Worth it. Also only about a VG card, but I wouldn't trade the memory for anything.