NYPL Peck & Snyder Red Stockings Card

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I commend Leon for the final choice he made.

However I don't want a rose colored view of history on this. Leon was aware of issues and tried to sell the card anyway. Then when caught every angle was tried by Leon. From name calling, playing dumb, thread locking, playing the victim, getting in peoples faces, PMs to the very people he was calling names, to offline political chats.

The actions of Leon regarding this card were far from that of a hobby player who claims to do more than 99% in terms of fighting fraud than the rest of us. It should have never taken hobby collectors like myself and others to bring this to the attention of this board. It was disappointing then and looking back it still is.

However in the end a treasure was returned to the institution where its original owner wanted it to remain. That's about the best one could hope for.

Cheers,

John

GREAT POST!!! Glad I am not the only one who feels that way.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

GREAT POST!!! Glad I am not the only one who feels that way.

You and anyone that believes this is just wrong. Had I known there was a stamp I would have addressed it the same way I did when I found out. Within a few hours I had called the NYPL and authorities. So if ya'll think I knew for any time before that, and didn't address it., there is no way I can convince you. But it's not the truth. I knew of the stamp identification the same time the rest of the board did. Those are the facts. Believe what you want to.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

So if ya'll think I knew for any time before that, and didn't address it., there is no way I can convince you. But it's not the truth. I knew of the stamp identification the same time the rest of the board did. Those are the facts. Believe what you want to.

So the FBI agent never told you there was a stamp on your card, or that there were potential issues with it? So in that video of you talking to Scott you had no idea there was a possible stamp? Even though you mention the NYPL, stamp, FBI and JC's card in the video where you are unaware you're being filmed.

Your willing to say the FBI agent returned your card and said there are no markings to be seen nothing to look into the card is clear? So from 2014 to the time of listing you had no knowledge whatsoever there were any potential issues with this card.

Then why do you say things to the contrary in PMs to me and in the video?

Amazing coincidence then that HA mentioned "library stamp" as the first possibility for the mark on the back of the card....because nobody knew it was there least of all you...until that day the topic was brought up on Net54 and Hauls of Shame.

John

[asphaltman]

We can probably cut to the chase on the next fifty replies to this thread if we all just read the original. Most likely it's the same verbage, part 2.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

So the FBI agent never told you there was a stamp on your card, or that there were potential issues with it? So in that video of you talking to Scott you had no idea there was a possible stamp? Even though you mention the NYPL, stamp, FBI and JC's card in the video where you are unaware you're being filmed.

Your willing to say the FBI agent returned your card and said there are no markings to be seen nothing to look into the card is clear? So from 2014 to the time of listing you had no knowledge whatsoever there were any potential issues with this card.

Then why do you say things to the contrary in PMs to me and in the video?

Amazing coincidence then that HA mentioned "library stamp" as the first possibility for the mark on the back of the card....because nobody knew it was there least of all you...until that day the topic was brought up on Net54 and Hauls of Shame.

John

Hi John
Let me set the record straight once again. It won't change as the truth never will, and is what I have said along. I was given the card back and told there was 100% an erased stamp on it. It was not identifiable as to where it came from. After that I let it go, obviously you haven't. As for me mentioning it could have been an NYPL stamp, absolutely true. It could have been. Could it have been stolen? Absolutely. Did I have many discussions (recorded or not) as to those facts, absolutely. None of that changes any of the facts. The HA knew, just like I and everyone else did, it could have been a library stamp or it could have been a photographers stamp. Nothing has changed. And why do you sound like you are trying to inerrogate me? That is foolish. You might try being more succinct too. If you ask the same question twice I will only answer it once.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi John
Let me set the record straight once again. It won't change as the truth never will, and is what I have said along. I was given the card back and told there was 100% an erased stamp on it. It was not identifiable as to where it came from. After that I let it go, obviously you haven't. As for me mentioning it could have been an NYPL stamp, absolutely true. It could have been. Could it have been stolen? Absolutely. Did I have many discussions (recorded or not) as to those facts, absolutely. None of that changes any of the facts. The HA knew, just like I and everyone else did, it could have been a library stamp or it could have been a photographers stamp. Nothing has changed. And why do you sound like you are trying to inerrogate me? That is foolish. You might try being more succinct too. If you ask the same question twice I will only answer it once.

You still manage to miss the point. Exactly right you knew there was a stamp, choose to not look into it. FBI takes your card for review and notifies you of potential issues. You say....ehhh no biggie and move on. Then you list the card for sale a year later with no research into this erased stamp. Then after it's up for sale folks who don't own the card are able to take scans and in a matter of minutes figure out it's from the NYPL. Yet somehow you couldn't do this owning the card and knowing of the issue for over a year?

Yes I had the audacity to ask and still ask. Is this what a person does who is so called so instrumental in fighting hobby fraud? You even admit to me in a PM this was a really bad call on your part.

So because I refuse to take the narrative that you were so willing to do the right thing to return this card all along. Because I see the ugly mess that it really was and think folks should remember this regardless of the very positive final outcome. For these reasons I'm an evil person. Makes perfect sense.

If this was any other collector with the above set of circumstances there would be a different tone in these threads. The main reason you see so few folks being vocal here is the fear of having the moderator ban them.

It's not that you had a stolen card could happen to any of us, it's not the final outcome which was great Leon. It's how you handled the stuff between the start and the finish line that's the issue and that you seem to take no real ownership of....short of it's everyone else's fault and any who dare disagree with the way it was handled are simply on a witch hunt.

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

You still manage to miss the point. Exactly right you knew there was a stamp, choose to not look into it. FBI takes your card for review and notifies you of potential issues. You say....ehhh no biggie and move on. Then you list the card for sale a year later with no research into this erased stamp. Then after it's up for sale folks who don't own the card are able to take scans and in a matter of minutes figure out it's from the NYPL. Yet somehow you couldn't do this owning the card and knowing of the issue for over a year?

Yes I had the audacity to ask and still ask. Is this what a person does who is so called so instrumental in fighting hobby fraud? You even admit to me in a PM this was a really bad call on your part.

So because I refuse to take the narrative that you were so willing to do the right thing to return this card all along. Because I see the ugly mess that it really was and think folks should remember this regardless of the very positive final outcome. For these reasons I'm an evil person. Makes perfect sense.

If this was any other collector with the above set of circumstances there would be a different tone in these threads. The main reason you see so few folks being vocal here is the fear of having the moderator ban them.

It's not that you had a stolen card could happen to any of us, it's not the final outcome which was great Leon. It's how you handled the stuff between the start and the finish line that's the issue and that you seem to take no real ownership of....short of it's everyone else's fault and any who dare disagree with the way it was handled are simply on a witch hunt.

John

Wrong. No need to address it again.

[smokelessjoe]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

You still manage to miss the point. Exactly right you knew there was a stamp, choose to not look into it. FBI takes your card for review and notifies you of potential issues. You say....ehhh no biggie and move on. Then you list the card for sale a year later with no research into this erased stamp. Then after it's up for sale folks who don't own the card are able to take scans and in a matter of minutes figure out it's from the NYPL. Yet somehow you couldn't do this owning the card and knowing of the issue for over a year?

Yes I had the audacity to ask and still ask. Is this what a person does who is so called so instrumental in fighting hobby fraud? You even admit to me in a PM this was a really bad call on your part.

So because I refuse to take the narrative that you were so willing to do the right thing to return this card all along. Because I see the ugly mess that it really was and think folks should remember this regardless of the very positive final outcome. For these reasons I'm an evil person. Makes perfect sense.

If this was any other collector with the above set of circumstances there would be a different tone in these threads. The main reason you see so few folks being vocal here is the fear of having the moderator ban them.

It's not that you had a stolen card could happen to any of us, it's not the final outcome which was great Leon. It's how you handled the stuff between the start and the finish line that's the issue and that you seem to take no real ownership of....short of it's everyone else's fault and any who dare disagree with the way it was handled are simply on a witch hunt.

John

It has been my experience that when someone is being as repetitive as Wonka is - there are other underlying issues. 99% of the time - again my experience.

A few reasons.

Power Trip
Envious
Personal / Feelings Hurt
Vindictive
Many others...


Every time I run across this, I have noticed that it is extremely difficult for the perpetrator to look within themselves to try & figure out why they feel the need to repeat their point while others make their point and move on
(I'm betting Wonka does not have this ability either). My guess is that Wonka has some emotions / feelings that are hurt. I have a sneaky suspicion these two need to do what my grandmother used to make my sister & I do...
Hug & Kiss... Meanwhile she would remark "AWWWEEEE".

[wonkaticket]

How's that Psych 101 class working out for you?

[1880nonsports]

to express their interpretation of events and their feelings about how they saw things play out to the degree they have felt necessary. Questions have been asked and answered more than once. Nothing has changed in that regard as it relates to their positions. I'm hoping that as two mostly rational people they agree by moratorium to move on. Sometimes when the outcome is right - the serpentine road and weary travelers should be left behind.

Often life gives you the test and then the lesson. We all have lessons to learn.