REAs " Honest Auto Bid (TM) "

[andybecker]

Ken,
no need to edit, as you had no reason to know what we paid Bob to do.

and sorry if I came off as defensive, I wasn't offended in the slightest, again just clarifying what we paid Bob for.

[Robert_Lifson]

Ken is correct that this has been in our catalog verbiage for years - since 2004 when we conceived of and paid for the software security modifications that define Honest Auto Bid. If the Simple Auctions has now added the capability to totally eliminate access to passwords also, then this is great improvement, and does make this verbiage in the REA catalog regarding security outdated (and in that case will be updated in the future).


Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[kengoldin]

Thanks Rob. Nice post.

Originally Posted by REA

Ken is correct that this has been in our catalog verbiage for years - since 2004 when we conceived of and paid for the software security modifications that define Honest Auto Bid. If the Simple Auctions has now added the capability to totally eliminate access to passwords also, then this is great improvement, and does make this verbiage in the REA catalog regarding security outdated (and in that case will be updated in the future).


Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by REA

Ken is correct that this has been in our catalog verbiage for years - since 2004 when we conceived of and paid for the software security modifications that define Honest Auto Bid. If the Simple Auctions has now added the capability to totally eliminate access to passwords also, then this is great improvement, and does make this verbiage in the REA catalog regarding security outdated (and in that case will be updated in the future).


Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

It was added about 5 years ago

[Robert_Lifson]

Bob, that is great and a very impressive improvement. We have spoken many times during the past five years and you have never mentioned this to me. Just for clarity, is it accurate that all auctions using the Simple Auctions software cannot access passwords? (and thus cannot access maximum bids, even if they have chosen not to have maximum bids displayed in the administration system). Or is this just an option that is used by some? I understand from Ken and Andy’s posts that they utilize this security feature, and my hat is off to them, and to you also for providing the capability. Do all other auctions using Simple Auctions also have no access to passwords? (Goodwin, Sterling Auctions, Al Anderson political auctions, Oldpoliticals.com etc) or is this a security option that is used only by some? How many have no access to passwords vs do not have access? Whatever the answer, I appreciate that the option is there. It's a big deal in my opinion.

Sincerely,


Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[bobfreedman]

Rob, while I could list everyone who does and who doesn't, it is up to each auction house to advertise their rules and procedures. I can tell you that a vast majority of auction houses that utilize our software employ this feature (not being able to see max bids). I am sure you would not want me speaking on your behalf on this board.

Respectfully,
Bob

P.S. Ken emailed me privately and asked me to address this

[Robert_Lifson]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Rob, while I could list everyone who does and who doesn't, it is up to each auction house to advertise their rules and procedures. I can tell you that a vast majority of all auction house that utilize our software employ this feature (not being able to see max bids). I am sure you would not want me speaking on your behalf on this board.

Respectfully,
Bob

P.S. Ken emailed me privately and asked me to address this

Bob, while you cannot speak for REA as our software service provider/host, because we do not currently use the Simple Auctions platform, we would actually be very happy to have our software/service provider (Create Auction) speak for REA or answer any questions regarding max bid and password security at any time.

I am extremely confused by the wording of your response as there are TWO essential elements to max bid security: that the auction administration software does not display the max bids, AND that the auction house cannot access bidder passwords. I am not sure if you are referring to one or both.

You have said that the vast majority of all auction houses that use the Simple Auction platform employ the feature of “not being able to see max bids.” But it is not clear if you are referring just to the display of max bids in the auction house administration page, or BOTH the administration display and the access to bidder passwords. Because if the auction house has access to bidder passwords, then they ALSO have access to all maximum bids if desired. They are only a couple of clicks away.

When I recently participated in an auction that uses the Simple Auctions platform, and I had misplaced my password, the auction representative (who I happened to be speaking with on the phone when I realized I forgot my password and I happened to mention this in passing) was able, in just a few seconds, to tell me my password. This was very recent. And this was not the first time an auction house hosted by Simple Auctions has made me aware with certainty they had my password (and this was well within the past five years).

So to make sure I understand: Are you saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system AND do not have access to passwords? Or are you just saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system, but many of these same auction houses actually do have access to bidder passwords? (and hence still have access to max bids if desired).

By the way, I am not suggesting that any given auction that has access to max bids is misusing this access. And even if Ken and Andy were the only Simple Auction-hosted auctions that utilized both features (that together and only together provide security of max bids), that would still be a big deal and huge step in the right direction in my opinion. But there is such a big difference between 1) a system where accessing max bids by the auction house is impossible, and 2) a system where an impression that this is the case could be misinterpreted, and the max bids can actually be accessed by the auction house at will if desired. So I am taking the time to ask for clarity regarding this if it is possible to provide.

Sincerely,


Rob L


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[Kevin.Shenker]

I would say the wording is pretty iffy, and seems like it is a carefully crafted response. Maybe I am reading into it to much, who knows.

You said you made the feature, but it is up to them to use it, but it has been that way for years, but you don't say every single company using your software has been told or forced to upgrade to the standard. It sounds like you are washing your hands of the responsibility by saying it is there, but up to them or not up to them.

REA's question is pretty direct. I for one, am interested in hearing the response, as it seems most auction houses use the software.

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by REA

Bob, while you cannot speak for REA as our software service provider/host, because we do not currently use the Simple Auctions platform, we would actually be very happy to have our software/service provider (Create Auction) speak for REA or answer any questions regarding max bid and password security at any time.

I am extremely confused by the wording of your response as there are TWO essential elements to max bid security: that the auction administration software does not display the max bids, AND that the auction house cannot access bidder passwords. I am not sure if you are referring to one or both.

You have said that the vast majority of all auction houses that use the Simple Auction platform employ the feature of “not being able to see max bids.” But it is not clear if you are referring just to the display of max bids in the auction house administration page, or BOTH the administration display and the access to bidder passwords. Because if the auction house has access to bidder passwords, then they ALSO have access to all maximum bids if desired. They are only a couple of clicks away.

When I recently participated in an auction that uses the Simple Auctions platform, and I had misplaced my password, the auction representative (who I happened to be speaking with on the phone when I realized I forgot my password and I happened to mention this in passing) was able, in just a few seconds, to tell me my password. This was very recent. And this was not the first time an auction house hosted by Simple Auctions has made me aware with certainty they had my password (and this was well within the past five years).

So to make sure I understand: Are you saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system AND do not have access to passwords? Or are you just saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system, but many of these same auction houses actually do have access to bidder passwords? (and hence still have access to max bids if desired).

By the way, I am not suggesting that any given auction that has access to max bids is misusing this access. And even if Ken and Andy were the only Simple Auction-hosted auctions that utilized both features (that together and only together provide security of max bids), that would still be a big deal and huge step in the right direction in my opinion. But there is such a big difference between 1) a system where accessing max bids by the auction house is impossible, and 2) a system where an impression that this is the case could be misinterpreted, and the max bids can actually be accessed by the auction house at will if desired. So I am taking the time to ask for clarity regarding this if it is possible to provide.

Sincerely,


Rob L


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

Rob, if a specific AH asks me to speak for them, I will, as I did with Goldin and my original point was that I am sure you would not want Seth (CreateAuction) to speak for you on your behalf without your knowledge nor permission.

When I stated that they "cannot see max bids", I am including that they cannot see Passwords, email addresses etc... We realize that not seeing the max bid is only half of the equation.

Auction Houses also do not have access to their database.

BST's "overlay" (True Bid)is a name that they came up with for a feature that we did not brand nor market ourselves. They chose to advertise the fact that they cannot see the max bids (and not see PW's etc....) while other AH's chose not to but they do indeed have employed this feature.