REAs " Honest Auto Bid (TM) "

[bobfreedman]

Rob, while I could list everyone who does and who doesn't, it is up to each auction house to advertise their rules and procedures. I can tell you that a vast majority of auction houses that utilize our software employ this feature (not being able to see max bids). I am sure you would not want me speaking on your behalf on this board.

Respectfully,
Bob

P.S. Ken emailed me privately and asked me to address this

[Robert_Lifson]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Rob, while I could list everyone who does and who doesn't, it is up to each auction house to advertise their rules and procedures. I can tell you that a vast majority of all auction house that utilize our software employ this feature (not being able to see max bids). I am sure you would not want me speaking on your behalf on this board.

Respectfully,
Bob

P.S. Ken emailed me privately and asked me to address this

Bob, while you cannot speak for REA as our software service provider/host, because we do not currently use the Simple Auctions platform, we would actually be very happy to have our software/service provider (Create Auction) speak for REA or answer any questions regarding max bid and password security at any time.

I am extremely confused by the wording of your response as there are TWO essential elements to max bid security: that the auction administration software does not display the max bids, AND that the auction house cannot access bidder passwords. I am not sure if you are referring to one or both.

You have said that the vast majority of all auction houses that use the Simple Auction platform employ the feature of “not being able to see max bids.” But it is not clear if you are referring just to the display of max bids in the auction house administration page, or BOTH the administration display and the access to bidder passwords. Because if the auction house has access to bidder passwords, then they ALSO have access to all maximum bids if desired. They are only a couple of clicks away.

When I recently participated in an auction that uses the Simple Auctions platform, and I had misplaced my password, the auction representative (who I happened to be speaking with on the phone when I realized I forgot my password and I happened to mention this in passing) was able, in just a few seconds, to tell me my password. This was very recent. And this was not the first time an auction house hosted by Simple Auctions has made me aware with certainty they had my password (and this was well within the past five years).

So to make sure I understand: Are you saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system AND do not have access to passwords? Or are you just saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system, but many of these same auction houses actually do have access to bidder passwords? (and hence still have access to max bids if desired).

By the way, I am not suggesting that any given auction that has access to max bids is misusing this access. And even if Ken and Andy were the only Simple Auction-hosted auctions that utilized both features (that together and only together provide security of max bids), that would still be a big deal and huge step in the right direction in my opinion. But there is such a big difference between 1) a system where accessing max bids by the auction house is impossible, and 2) a system where an impression that this is the case could be misinterpreted, and the max bids can actually be accessed by the auction house at will if desired. So I am taking the time to ask for clarity regarding this if it is possible to provide.

Sincerely,


Rob L


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[Kevin.Shenker]

I would say the wording is pretty iffy, and seems like it is a carefully crafted response. Maybe I am reading into it to much, who knows.

You said you made the feature, but it is up to them to use it, but it has been that way for years, but you don't say every single company using your software has been told or forced to upgrade to the standard. It sounds like you are washing your hands of the responsibility by saying it is there, but up to them or not up to them.

REA's question is pretty direct. I for one, am interested in hearing the response, as it seems most auction houses use the software.

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by REA

Bob, while you cannot speak for REA as our software service provider/host, because we do not currently use the Simple Auctions platform, we would actually be very happy to have our software/service provider (Create Auction) speak for REA or answer any questions regarding max bid and password security at any time.

I am extremely confused by the wording of your response as there are TWO essential elements to max bid security: that the auction administration software does not display the max bids, AND that the auction house cannot access bidder passwords. I am not sure if you are referring to one or both.

You have said that the vast majority of all auction houses that use the Simple Auction platform employ the feature of “not being able to see max bids.” But it is not clear if you are referring just to the display of max bids in the auction house administration page, or BOTH the administration display and the access to bidder passwords. Because if the auction house has access to bidder passwords, then they ALSO have access to all maximum bids if desired. They are only a couple of clicks away.

When I recently participated in an auction that uses the Simple Auctions platform, and I had misplaced my password, the auction representative (who I happened to be speaking with on the phone when I realized I forgot my password and I happened to mention this in passing) was able, in just a few seconds, to tell me my password. This was very recent. And this was not the first time an auction house hosted by Simple Auctions has made me aware with certainty they had my password (and this was well within the past five years).

So to make sure I understand: Are you saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system AND do not have access to passwords? Or are you just saying that most of the auction houses using the Simple Auctions platform do not display the max bids in the administration system, but many of these same auction houses actually do have access to bidder passwords? (and hence still have access to max bids if desired).

By the way, I am not suggesting that any given auction that has access to max bids is misusing this access. And even if Ken and Andy were the only Simple Auction-hosted auctions that utilized both features (that together and only together provide security of max bids), that would still be a big deal and huge step in the right direction in my opinion. But there is such a big difference between 1) a system where accessing max bids by the auction house is impossible, and 2) a system where an impression that this is the case could be misinterpreted, and the max bids can actually be accessed by the auction house at will if desired. So I am taking the time to ask for clarity regarding this if it is possible to provide.

Sincerely,


Rob L


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, NJ 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

Rob, if a specific AH asks me to speak for them, I will, as I did with Goldin and my original point was that I am sure you would not want Seth (CreateAuction) to speak for you on your behalf without your knowledge nor permission.

When I stated that they "cannot see max bids", I am including that they cannot see Passwords, email addresses etc... We realize that not seeing the max bid is only half of the equation.

Auction Houses also do not have access to their database.

BST's "overlay" (True Bid)is a name that they came up with for a feature that we did not brand nor market ourselves. They chose to advertise the fact that they cannot see the max bids (and not see PW's etc....) while other AH's chose not to but they do indeed have employed this feature.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

BST's "overlay" (True Bid)is a name that they came up with for a feature that we did not brand nor market ourselves. They chose to advertise the fact that they cannot see the max bids (and not see PW's etc....) while other AH's chose not to but they do indeed have employed this feature.

Bob - So I am confused a little here. Is the true-bid overlay just BST's term they used to describe what you always do or did they brand and market something new? Is true-bid any additional level of protection to the buyer (no pws, no max bids seen) or is it just the same software and they renamed it? I have yet to see anyone else use true-bid, is that something just for BST or is this something you offer to everyone else? Can I ask how many AHs use your software?

Andy Becker is claiming in post #8 they paid for this overlay...what did they pay for? If its just a switch they named and marketed, what did they pay for? I was under the impression they went an extra mile, an extra mile our hobby needs...back to transparency and integrity. Is it simply the "switch" is gone? IMO that switch shouldn't be an option...that's kinda like taking in a cheat sheet for a test just in case I want to use it...maybe I'm starting to split hairs here, but I feel this is an extremely important issue. AHs should set the standards of the hobby, I don't think that has been the case in past years though...

[Kevin.Shenker]

The answer is still convoluted. Why use "etc" anything in your answer, right at the critical part where you are addressing the question?

I think the answer is, there are still some auction houses that can, and he is not willing to mention which ones still do.

It is simple. Do some auction houses, without naming specific auction houses, not use the new feature you made? Yes or no?

[Peter_Spaeth]

In post 16 Bob said the "vast majority" of AH's using Simple Site employ the feature we have been discussing, so by negative implication at least some don't, is how I read that.

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In post 16 Bob said the "vast majority" of AH's using Simple Site employ the feature we have been discussing, so by negative implication at least some don't, is how I read that.

I agree. That is my interpretation as well, but he isn't coming out and saying that directly. If that is the case, own it and just say it without skirting around the issue at hand.