SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

It could very easily have something to do with it being a Polar Bear. I'm sure that both PSA and SGC take into account for Polar Bears being way harder to get in great shape.

if this is occurring...this is a big problem.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

if this is occurring...this is a big problem.

I wouldn't doubt it in the slightest. I feel like Polar Bears have always gotten a little bit of leeway.

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I wouldn't doubt it in the slightest. I feel like Polar Bears have always gotten a little bit of leeway.

I've done cross overs on two dozen SGC 60 graded Polar Bears over to PSA and have only had three of them come back PSA 5. One came back PSA 4.5, some were 4s, one a 3.5, and four as trimmed (a separate topic for another day!). Just my two cent observation on the topic of Polar Bears. SGC graded Polar Bears like the link to the Cobb seem to be extremely poor candidates for a flip.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

I've done cross overs on two dozen SGC 60 graded Polar Bears over to PSA and have only had three of them come back PSA 5. One came back PSA 4.5, some were 4s, one a 3.5, and four as trimmed (a separate topic for another day!). Just my two cent observation on the topic of Polar Bears. SGC graded Polar Bears like the link to the Cobb seem to be extremely poor candidates for a flip.

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, does it?

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

were those true cross overs or did you crack them first?

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

were those true cross overs or did you crack them first?

Half and half. After the trims came back I have started true cross overs, and no more cracking on Polar Bears.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

Half and half. After the trims came back I have started true cross overs, and no more cracking on Polar Bears.

So Luke what do you have available for trims ???

[Steve_NY]

What scares me more than anything else is that a collector will pay $1,000s of dollars for a perfect 10 common card worth probably about $5 - $10 just because it is graded by a human being as a perfect 10.

But don't get me wrong; grading has made me a lot of money, not because I graded cards, but because I have never graded cards. Dealers and collectors continue to buy my ungraded cards and always say, "why don't you have them graded yourself?"

Maybe I am a leftover from another generation, but if and when this "trend" has its peak, I will still be there (assuming I live that long) to keep all of my customers happy.

But if you still want to buy ungraded cards and get them graded on your own, see me at this year's National at booth 1110P, 6 booths in the door.

By the way, I have also enjoyed the past several months of posts. I am busy for most of the year on a huge project for the #1 business publication in the world, but when I get free, your knowledge and ability to share those details freely is unsurpassed. Thank you all!!! Stop by and say hello.

Steve Sabow DynamicTwo@aol.com

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

I've done cross overs on two dozen SGC 60 graded Polar Bears over to PSA and have only had three of them come back PSA 5. One came back PSA 4.5, some were 4s, one a 3.5, and four as trimmed (a separate topic for another day!). Just my two cent observation on the topic of Polar Bears. SGC graded Polar Bears like the link to the Cobb seem to be extremely poor candidates for a flip.

Doesn't everyone know that you can't flip a polar bear, ................... unless the polar bear wants to flip.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...t=mozilla&tt=b

[LKeeler]

[QUOTE=frankbmd;1433265]Doesn't everyone know that you can't flip a polar bear, ................... unless the polar bear wants to flip.

Haha, Frank. That is awesome.

[clydepepper]

[QUOTE=LKeeler;1433292]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Doesn't everyone know that you can't flip a polar bear, ................... unless the polar bear wants to flip.

Haha. Awesome.

A polar bear once asked me for a Coca-Cola but I flipped him off.

Does that count?
.
.

[ricktmd]

While it is clear that PSA cards bring higher $ than SGC cards of the same grade the question is why and does it matter to a collector. I believe the psa registry collectors who will pay more for PSA. This is a simple dynamic. Besides spending the time energy and money trying to cross the cards they often don't cross at the same grade so PSA collectors like myself are willing to pay more for PSA over SGC. One other factor is that PSA is part of a larger company that grades coins stamps etc.. They are a more substantial stable company which makes there cards safer investments as well. PSA is a pain to deal with but I think there grading while sometimes a head scratcher is fairly consistent. SGC is cheaper and easier to deal with that is for sure. In my opinion SGC over grades and grades items like S74 silks terribly. On top of all that the recent fiasco with the Standard Biscuit cards where they graded crudely cut strip cards with a lame standard biscuit stamped back as 84's that went to auction shows they are not trustworthy with authenticity. I have nothing against them but the standard biscuit fakes would never have been graded at PSA. I know SGC is popular and I get why. It just makes more sense from an investment standpoint with pricey vintage cards to collect PSA
Rick Clemens

[nolemmings]

While it is clear that PSA cards bring higher $ than SGC cards of the same grade the question is why and does it matter to a collector. I believe the psa registry collectors who will pay more for PSA. This is a simple dynamic. Besides spending the time energy and money trying to cross the cards they often don't cross at the same grade so PSA collectors like myself are willing to pay more for PSA over SGC.

While I agree with this part of your post, I do not with the rest. The Standard Biscuit fiasco, as you call it, was close enough where it is at least somewhat excusable, IMO. The cards were not "crudely cut" at all; if anything, they were a bit too sharp. The "lame stamped back" was apparently close enough to fool you, as you bought one of the cards.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=biscuit I don't for a minute have trouble believing they could have passed through PSA as well, as all the companies have had trouble with this set for years. PSA is the company that graded a reprint Ruth rookie with a numeric grade!! Talk about being on alert as to what to look for in one of the most prestigious cards in the hobby and then blowing it.

As for PSA grading coins, they are absolutely horrid at grading PX7 discs, so that that additional area of ""expertise" certainly has not translated.

So the debate can continue on investors vs. collectors etc, and how SGC seems unable or unwilling to expand its brand, but their ability to prove authenticity is at least as strong, and in my view stronger, than PSA.

[ricktmd]

The standard biscuit fiasco was surprising. I bought one of the mistakenly graded W575 strip cards from a reputable dealer on ebay who took the card back. It was not a perfect scan . As soon as I received the card and looked at it , it was obvious that two out of the 4 sides were hand cut with small hanging pieces and jagged edges . You could see them with a magnifying glass or a loop. It was as clear as can be and any competent grader should have caught that one , not to mention the several SGC graded. I posted about the cards when I was a bidder and thought no way that if they were altered it would get through SGC or the dealer who sold them. I am sure people have had bad experiences with PSA that could be similar. That experience along with the fact the SGC cards don't normally cross and sell for less money is the reason I posted and agree with Kevin. I do understand why people like SGC . I just think Kevin is right about the values and I am just hesitant due to a bad experience
Rick Clemens

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by ricktmd

I have nothing against them but the standard biscuit fakes would never have been graded at PSA.

I'm pretty sure PSA graded fake Babe Ruth Sporting Life rookies a few years back.

They all make mistakes.

Tony