Is snipe bidding killing the hobby?

[cfhofer]

Leon,

It is a fun debate. Obviously there is no definitive answer. Heritage has a 5-minute rule on Internet auctions.

But let me ask you this, since you run a small auction company. If eBay gave you (as the seller) the option for a "10-minute rule" at an extra 1% would you take advantage of it?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Leon,

It is a fun debate. Obviously there is no definitive answer. Heritage has a 5-minute rule on Internet auctions.

But let me ask you this, since you run a small auction company. If eBay gave you (as the seller) the option for a "10-minute rule" at an extra 1% would you take advantage of it?

I am not sure I would ever want to pay more for ebay services. They are kind of rich right now, imo. But I would have to consider it, financially, even if my personal bias is to hate more fees. At the end of the day their invoice, If I could make more than I am spending, I would do it.

And no, the 10 minute ebay rule programming would not be difficult to do, with respect to everything else. I have been involved in a few auction programming projects on the sales/marketing side of the business..(I am not technical but have seen what can be done and how long things take, in general)


,

[drcy]

Clearly people place snipe bids to get lower prices. People in this very thread have said that. So clearly sniping lowers prices. And it's not just a matter of shilling (which I don't deny is a legitimate problem), but people here have said they do it due to other legitimate bidders. They believe other bidders (and I'm talking about honest ones) will bid more and raise prices if they see their bids in the middle of the auction as opposed to when they're snuck in at the end and don't have a chance to react. Call it psychological bidding if you wish or people bidding more when they're emotionally invested in an item they've bid on or being irrationally exuberant or having more time to think if they are willing to place an extra bid, but that's a part of how people bid. People are psychological animals not robots and often will bid more than they would have if they someone has out bid them. Remove shilling and have only legitimate honest bidders participating in the bidding process and people would still place snip bids to get lower prices. The reason why auction houses have 10 or 15 minute rules is because bidders will reconsider what they're willing to bid and sometimes raise their bids when given a few minutes to think about it-- something that snipe bidding eliminates and is designed to eliminate. The idea that sniping has no effect on final pricing is, quite simply, wrong-- and I'm talking here about auctions where there is no shilling.

[mcgwirecom]

Yes we snipe to get a lower price but also to avoid the shillers. Back in the day I would just put in my secret highest bid. On several occasions I would wake up in the morning and get two different emails. One said "you were outbid". The next would say "you won!". WTF? I went back and would see a bidder top everyone and then retract his bid and rebid just under my secret high bid.

After that I would sit at the computer for every auction I wanted to bid in, wait until the last second and pop in my high bid. So esnipe was a great idea.

The other reason I wait until the last second is because some people don't put in the time and effort to research some items. They just look at what everyone is bidding on and jump in. I've won many auctions with only my bid because I spent a lot of time researching something to find out it was a great deal. I spent the time, I reap the benefits. If I were to bid on it the first day its like sending up a flag that this is a good item to bid on.

[Lordstan]

I look at sniping slightly differently.

I snipe not because of "lower" prices per se. I snipe because it prevents me from getting emotional about an item. By bidding the most I'm willing to pay at the very end, allows me to stay within my budget and either win or lose without regret. I never assume my bid will win it more cheaply than my max. If it does great. If it doesn't that's OK too. It's not my fault others don't bid at the end the same way. If they do, the final price isn't very likely to be lower at all.

I think the reason there is less stuff on ebay is because they have made it a very unfriendly place for small sellers. Sure, if you're KHW or PWCC or Probstein, you can still survive quite well because of the volume, but ebay is trying to be Amazon. This has made it virtually impossible for the collector who sells so he/she can buy to be able to sell cost effectively. The higher fees and strangling rules, not sniping, have made guys like Mark(perezfan) and others, who have high end items they may want to move to buy something else, no longer chance selling on ebay outside of BINs at prices that factor in the extra fees.

[murphusa]

I place a bid on an item for the amount I want to pay. If I win, great, if not, there is always the nest one.

[cfhofer]

Sniping is the best way to bid on eBay, no question. Several studies have proven that items sold under snipes go for less money than traditional auctions. However, if sellers are now looking to maximize profits by shifting their material to BINs or sports auction sites how is this healthy for our hobby? I would much rather purchase an item off eBay than pay 25% buyers fees.

[Jewish-collector]

I don't agree with the "sniping saves me money" for an auction. There are 2 reasons I will snipe 1) to not show your hand 2) you can decide to change your bid, not bid, etc,... up until 5 minutes before the auction ends.

I also agree with murphusa. There's always another blankin auction. And another one after that. So, big deal if you "miss something".

What I can't figure out is how the hell collectors can keep up with the 50+ auction houses + ebay + Net54 B/S/T. Can someone please explain that to me ? Please ?

[travrosty]

sniping doesnt get stuff for lower prices. its ridiculous. if an item went for a price that was lower due to sniping, that means someone was willing to pay more, but didnt enter their increased bid. why would they not do that? that doesnt make sense. if someone was willing to pay more, they would have just entered a higher snipe bid at the end. sniping is just a way for people to THINK they have more control over an auction than they do. its a construct that makes people feel good, like thinking they are using a 'system' to beat the lottery, the roulette wheel, or the slot machines, when there is no such thing.

[CW]

Originally Posted by travrosty

sniping doesnt get stuff for lower prices. its ridiculous. if an item went for a price that was lower due to sniping, that means someone was willing to pay more, but didnt enter their increased bid. why would they not do that?

Because many collectors may want a certain card, but also want to get it for a good deal. You want a card, but you don't want to overpay (that can take some of the fun out of the hobby).

It happens all the time. A bidder will set an aggressive snipe that they are certain will win, only to see someone else outbid them. Many of those bidders, if given a 2nd chance to bid just a bit more, would enter in a higher snipe. It may not make sense to you, but I would think it happens a lot.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by travrosty

sniping doesnt get stuff for lower prices. its ridiculous. if an item went for a price that was lower due to sniping, that means someone was willing to pay more, but didnt enter their increased bid. why would they not do that? that doesnt make sense. if someone was willing to pay more, they would have just entered a higher snipe bid at the end. sniping is just a way for people to THINK they have more control over an auction than they do. its a construct that makes people feel good, like thinking they are using a 'system' to beat the lottery, the roulette wheel, or the slot machines, when there is no such thing.

You are assuming everyone is logical. A snipe is usually a more thought-out, logical maximum bid. People who do not snipe are often caught up in their emotions, changing their mind when they are outbid and bidding above what was supposed to be their max.