pete rose: What a Hitter & What a Scumbag !!

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by RTK

Not while he's alive, if at all. It seemed as if baseball was moving towards Rose but I'm sure this shuts down any hope. Joe Jackson is more deserving of being forgiven and making the Hall. I always saw Jackson as "the canary in the mine" , if he made it in, Rose would. Rose is his own worst enemy, great player though in his prime, but I wonder when the evidence will come out he bet against his team.

I'm not sure how Jow Jackson is more deserving... he actually threw World Series games and possibly regular season games in 1920. Buck Weaver maybe... but not joe jackson. I say never let any of them in.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I'm not sure how Jow Jackson is more deserving... he actually threw World Series games and possibly regular season games in 1920. Buck Weaver maybe... but not joe jackson. I say never let any of them in.

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

[RTK]

Originally Posted by rats60

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

Yup, I was under the impression he played pretty well.

"Debate has raged ever since over the extent of Jackson’s participation in the scheme. He claimed his teammates gave his name to the gamblers even though he hadn’t agreed to participate, and the other players admitted that Jackson never attended meetings about the fix. Though Jackson signed a confession in 1920 stating that he was paid $5,000 (out of the $20,000 he was promised), he later asserted that a team lawyer manipulated him into signing a document he didn’t fully understand. (Jackson never learned to read or write.) He also said he tried to return the money and talk to White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the plan both before and after the series, but was rebuffed.

And finally, there’s the matter of Jackson’s play on the field. During the 1919 championship, the slugger made no errors and racked up 12 hits, a World Series record that stood until 1964. His batting average for the series (.375) was the highest on either team. If Jackson did try to throw the championship, his supporters argue, he did a pretty poor job. In any event, after the 1921 ban Jackson played “outlaw” ball under an assumed name before retiring to his hometown of Greenville, South Carolina, where he eventually owned a liquor store. He made various efforts to be reinstated, all of which were denied, before his death in 1951."

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by rats60

It's questionable that Jackson threw any games. His actual performance suggests that he didn’t. There is no doubt that Rose bet on games as a player and manager. Pete knew the rules when he put himself above the game. Now he is paying the price, forever banned from the game and hof. The idea that players would ignore the cardinal rule of baseball and would want induct Pete makes no sense.

I don't think there is much doubt that he participated in throwing these games. He even took payment and testified to this.
Most of his stats were padded at irrelevant points in the games and in the Cicotte game when they were actually trying to win.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I don't think there is much doubt that he participated in throwing these games. He even took payment and testified to this.
Most of his stats were padded at irrelevant points in the games and in the Cicotte game when they were actually trying to win.

There is no evidence that he took payment.The grand jury record of his testimony shows no confession, that is a myth. He was aquitted and later successfully sued Comisky for back pay. 3 legal proceedings in each he claimed innocence. After they were banned, the 7 said that he wasn't part of the fix.

He padded his stats? He set a record for hits, 12, and had an OPS of almost 1.000. He had a truly remarkable series if he was able to do that while throwing games. There are many myths around the Black Sox story. The only thing we know about Jackson is he knew of the fix. That is enough to keep him banned from baseball and out of the hof.

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by rats60

There is no evidence that he took payment.The grand jury record of his testimony shows no confession, that is a myth. He was aquitted and later successfully sued Comisky for back pay. 3 legal proceedings in each he claimed innocence. After they were banned, the 7 said that he wasn't part of the fix.

He padded his stats? He set a record for hits, 12, and had an OPS of almost 1.000. He had a truly remarkable series if he was able to do that while throwing games. There are many myths around the Black Sox story. The only thing we know about Jackson is he knew of the fix. That is enough to keep him banned from baseball and out of the hof.

He padded his stats at irrelevant points. His home run came when they were already down by 8 runs. He knew if he got singles, Risberg and Gandil batting behind him would never drive him in. in the field he played routine fly balls into triples and played out of position. There were a couple games when he went all out because he didn't know the fix was still on or when they were trying to win Ciccote game 5 for next year's contract negotiations.
I thought his grand jury testimony was hidden by comisky but turned up at the Milwaukee hearings four years later when Jackson was try to sue Comisky? And when they turned up the judge found Jackson in contempt and sent him off to jail for perjury.

[ooo-ribay]

Did you catch his stand up routine on the ASG pregame tonight? Bad.

I grew up in Ohio during the Big Red Machine years. I never liked Pete. That said, I say ban him from baseball but put him in the Hall. It's a museum of greatness and Pete was a great....a gambling addict and not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but a great.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Pete Rose's wife though is really hot. You have to hand it to the guy for that..