Is snipe bidding killing the hobby?

[Econteachert205]

I still get good deals off ebay through traditional bids.

[GoCubsGo32]

I mostly snipe due to the potential shill bid factor.

[packs]

I don't think sniping is all that different from how I normally bid anyway. I'll wait until the clock counts down to 2 seconds and bid on my own. I guess it would be more convenient if I just got a snipe service, but I'm doing the same thing anyway.

[Scott Garner]

I agree with both of the last two posters. The only real thing that has changed is that the great majority of all bidding activity occurs at the very end of an auction.

Personally, I've never understood the logic of bidding repeatedly early in an auction. The only thing that this does is artificially force the price up and increase the likelihood that you will spend an excessive amount as a buyer.

I certainly believe this as a buyer and understand and accept this as a seller FWIW...

[cfhofer]

Great comments/points! EBay provided (IMHO) the single biggest jolt to the sports memorabilia hobby in the last 30 years. While it may have accelerated the downfall of brick & mortar sport shops and local card shows, it had enough global accessibility to generate a true “market value” for our collectibles – while completely eliminating the middle man in the process.

Does snipe bidding establish a true "market value"? It is a flurry of independent single offers within the last 10 seconds of an auction. While it is almost foolish for a bidder to NOT snipe bid (as pointed out above), the seller is forced to play a game of “Russian roulette”. Now some sports collectibles (vintage cards instantly come to mind) generate enough bids that a seller typically makes out ok. But for vintage sports memorabilia it is a total crapshoot on eBay.

Is it a coincidence the high quality vintage sports memorabilia has dried up on eBay over the last few years? Sure an occasional antique dealer puts up a cool piece, but those are few and far between. It seems that more and more high quality pieces are making their way to a plethora of sports auction sites instead – which has reestablished the middle man that eBay helped eliminate. Has the hobby now come full circle?

Great discussion this morning!!

[hcv123]

1) I agree with all the points made above related to the buyer side. I almost always snipe.
2) As a seller - for regularly traded items where a market value is easily established, I believe there is not too much risk that a seller takes on.
3) For more thinly traded items or should I "feel like it" - I have the choice to set a minimum bid or reserve. Yes, statistically it chases some bidders away, but it also protects me.

[JoeDfan]

I almost always snipe on things I really want to add to the collection. For me I find that it prevents me from making emotional decisions at the last minute and overspending. I just enter the highest amount I am willing to pay and that is that.
Also, I have been in a few auctions where it was pretty clear there was some shills going down.

That said, I have lost a few bids with sniper, and then again, but I have gotten a few steals too.

[travrosty]

in reality, there is no such thing as sniping, you bid as much as you are willing to pay, whether it is right away at the beginning of the auction , or 2 seconds left, and others do too. so the high price takes it, no matter when it was entered as a bid.

[kmac32]

I routinely snipe as it prevents me from getting shilled. Generally works and if it doesn't work, the person that outsnipes me pays a higher price. The key is not to set your bid any higher than what you are actually willing to pay for an item.

Recently was after a common for my W572 set. Bid on a card that was worth around $70. I really wanted the card but could not be by a computer so bid $125.00 as my highest bid. Somebody sniped the card but he paid dearly for it at $127.50. Now if could have been lurking in the shadows, I could have bid with 3 seconds left and probably would have got the card at a semi reasonable price.

The point is that sniping has it's place and the element of suprise can get you an item at a lower price and if you do not win, it will cost your competition $$$.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Great comments/points! EBay provided (IMHO) the single biggest jolt to the sports memorabilia hobby in the last 30 years. While it may have accelerated the downfall of brick & mortar sport shops and local card shows, it had enough global accessibility to generate a true “market value” for our collectibles – while completely eliminating the middle man in the process.

Does snipe bidding establish a true "market value"? It is a flurry of independent single offers within the last 10 seconds of an auction. While it is almost foolish for a bidder to NOT snipe bid (as pointed out above), the seller is forced to play a game of “Russian roulette”. Now some sports collectibles (vintage cards instantly come to mind) generate enough bids that a seller typically makes out ok. But for vintage sports memorabilia it is a total crapshoot on eBay.

Is it a coincidence the high quality vintage sports memorabilia has dried up on eBay over the last few years? Sure an occasional antique dealer puts up a cool piece, but those are few and far between. It seems that more and more high quality pieces are making their way to a plethora of sports auction sites instead – which has reestablished the middle man that eBay helped eliminate. Has the hobby now come full circle?

Great discussion this morning!!

I agree that high-quality vintage sports memorabilia on eBay has indeed dried up. No doubt about it... But I believe sniping has little (if anything) to do with it.

I believe the two biggest reasons are as follows...

1. eBay has reached A LOT of incremental people over the past decade. And with regard to the rare/high quality pieces, collectors tend to stash these items away and keep them in their collections. Therefore, there is just less of the good stuff out there and less available for sale than before.

2. Ebay's fees and other recent policies have all tended to assist the Buyer (rather than the seller). They've contunually jacked up their fees, made PayPal an expensive requirement, and have made the feedback system a joke (in which only Sellers can be rated). In disputes, they almost always side with the Buyer over the Seller.

For those reasons, I never sell on eBay anymore. It has zero to do with sniping... I can simply get a better deal with the Auction Houses. Most Catalog Auctions can offer me a lower commission, and equal/better representation. IMO, the only advantage eBay still has is the speed of payment.

[Scott Garner]

I tend to agree with many of perezfan Mark's points, however I have found eBay is an excellent place to sell vintage baseball tickets and certain other memorabilia.

I've noted that large catalogue AH's are a crap shoot when it comes to selling vintage baseball tickets. Many times tickets do not realize anywhere near the prices that you can frequently get on eBay. I suspect that this is because of the fact that this is where many of the ticket collectors lurk, FWIW...

[yankeeno7]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree that high-quality vintage sports memorabilia on eBay has indeed dried up. No doubt about it... But I believe sniping has little (if anything) to do with it.

I believe the two biggest reasons are as follows...

1. eBay has reached A LOT of incremental people over the past decade. And with regard to the rare/high quality pieces, collectors tend to stash these items away and keep them in their collections. Therefore, there is just less of the good stuff out there and less available for sale than before.

2. Ebay's fees and other recent policies have all tended to assist the Buyer (rather than the seller). They've contunually jacked up their fees, made PayPal an expensive requirement, and have made the feedback system a joke (in which only Sellers can be rated). In disputes, they almost always side with the Buyer over the Seller.

For those reasons, I never sell on eBay anymore. It has zero to do with sniping... I can simply get a better deal with the Auction Houses. Most Catalog Auctions can offer me a lower commission, and equal/better representation. IMO, the only advantage eBay still has is the speed of payment.

This. +1

[rats60]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree that high-quality vintage sports memorabilia on eBay has indeed dried up. No doubt about it... But I believe sniping has little (if anything) to do with it.

I believe the two biggest reasons are as follows...

1. eBay has reached A LOT of incremental people over the past decade. And with regard to the rare/high quality pieces, collectors tend to stash these items away and keep them in their collections. Therefore, there is just less of the good stuff out there and less available for sale than before.

2. Ebay's fees and other recent policies have all tended to assist the Buyer (rather than the seller). They've contunually jacked up their fees, made PayPal an expensive requirement, and have made the feedback system a joke (in which only Sellers can be rated). In disputes, they almost always side with the Buyer over the Seller.

For those reasons, I never sell on eBay anymore. It has zero to do with sniping... I can simply get a better deal with the Auction Houses. Most Catalog Auctions can offer me a lower commission, and equal/better representation. IMO, the only advantage eBay still has is the speed of payment.

Ebay + Paypal is 11%. What auction house charges less than that? The ones I've seen are charging 18-20%. The only advantage that I see with them is that your item sells for more. No sniping plus bidders that don't use ebay.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think sniping is all that different from how I normally bid anyway. I'll wait until the clock counts down to 2 seconds and bid on my own. I guess it would be more convenient if I just got a snipe service, but I'm doing the same thing anyway.

Same here. I essentially enter the equivalent of a manual snipe, but if the item is extremely important to me I use a snipe service, simply because I don't want to forget to bid.

The good old days are gone. But they always are - things always look better in the rear view mirror.