O/T Scherzer - Almost a Vandermeer

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by arc2q

For all the constant sqwaking from players these days about respecting the game and understanding the unwritten rules, there needs to be more condemnation of Tabata. He leaned into it to try to get hit. It would have been less pathetic if he had bunted to try to break up the no hitter.

I'm sorry but this is laughable. Don't put him in that position by missing your spot by almost two feet on the biggest pitch of his life.

Tabata is supposed to roll over and play dead just because of the situation?

Respecting the game means playing all 27 outs. Would it really respect that amazingly pitched game to play out 27 any different than out 1? Scherzer deserved more than that.

What's more, Scherzer fully understands that. He gets that he made the terrible pitch. Good for him.

Tom C

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Bull.

Scherzer needs to not miss his spot by 18 or more inches on the biggest pitch of his career. End.of story. ALL responsibility for that is squarely on Scherzer. Execute your pitch and BS like this doesn't come into play.

Tom C

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

I'm sorry but this is laughable. Don't put him in that position by missing your spot by almost two feet on the biggest pitch of his life.

Tabata is supposed to roll over and play dead just because of the situation?

Respecting the game means playing all 27 outs. Would it really respect that amazingly pitched game to play out 27 any different than out 1? Scherzer deserved more than that.

What's more, Scherzer fully understands that. He gets that he made the terrible pitch. Good for him.

Tom C

Right on, bro.

[nolemmings]

Well, the rule is there that would have disallowed that HBP. As most here know, it saved Drysdale's shutout streak when the ump ruled Dick Dietz could not take first after failing to make an effort to get out of the way of an inside pitch that hit him on the elbow with the bases loaded. Here, Tabata not only only failed to make an effort to avoid contact, he actually moved to get hit. So it quite easily could have been ruled that he had to stay in the box--that would have been not only in the spirit, but also the written rules of the game.

And no, Scherzer did not miss the zone by a foot. The chalk for the batter's box is only six inches off the plate and that's about where the pitch was thrown--the catcher did not even have to leave his squat to catch it. It was an 86 mph slider that did not slide, but was not sailing into him--what little bend it had would have taken it toward the plate. No way he tries that with a 97 mph fastball. Speaking of which, hats off to Scherzer for the way he handled it, but I wouldn't mind or be surprised if he drilled Tabata in the ribs next time he faces him, if not multiple times. And it won't be a slider.

[Beatles Guy]

Take off the elbow armor and then lean in to get hit. I'd give him that HBP.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Well, the rule is there that would have disallowed that HBP. As most here know, it saved Drysdale's shutout streak when the ump ruled Dick Dietz could not take first after failing to make an effort to get out of the way of an inside pitch that hit him on the elbow with the bases loaded. Here, Tabata not only only failed to make an effort to avoid contact, he actually moved to get hit. So it quite easily could have been ruled that he had to stay in the box--that would have been not only in the spirit, but also the written rules of the game.

And no, Scherzer did not miss the zone by a foot. The chalk for the batter's box is only six inches off the plate and that's about where the pitch was thrown--the catcher did not even have to leave his squat to catch it. It was an 86 mph slider that did not slide, but was not sailing into him--what little bend it had would have taken it toward the plate. No way he tries that with a 97 mph fastball. Speaking of which, hats off to Scherzer for the way he handled it, but I wouldn't mind or be surprised if he drilled Tabata in the ribs next time he faces him, if not multiple times. And it won't be a slider.

Sorry Todd. The catcher was setting up on the outside part of the plate as Scherzer was delivering the ball. He missed his spot by the entire plate and at least six inches inside if not more. It was a terrible pitch. Scherzer was understandably amped up. The pitch was too far inside and never broke. Tabata should never have been in that position. Scherzer understands that.

If he drills Tabata, I would like to see two things happen.

1. It sends Tabata to the DL then back to the minors where he belongs.
2. Gerritt Cole fires one at 100 MPH at ass of the National of his choosing.

Tom C

[nolemmings]

Sorry Todd. The catcher was setting up on the outside part of the plate as Scherzer was delivering the ball. He missed his spot by the entire plate and at least six inches inside if not more. It was a terrible pitch. Scherzer was understandably amped up. The pitch was too far inside and never broke. Tabata should never have been in that position. Scherzer understands that.

If he drills Tabata, I would like to see two things happen.

1. It sends Tabata to the DL then back to the minors where he belongs.
2. Gerritt Cole fires one at 100 MPH at ass of the National of his choosing.

Wherever his target was, that pitch was only 6 or so inches off the plate, not a foot as someone said. Watch the replay. Again, it was a breaking pitch that had little or no break, but the point is barely relevant. The rule is what it is. He could and I believe should have had it enforced.

And if Pittsburgh wants to get in a beanball war then I hope they go for it. Dbacks fans lost Goldschmidt for a 1/3 of last year as a result of Pirates pitching--pitching that led the league in batters hit by a wide margin. Then we had to listen to whining about retaliation for hitting McCutcheon, who later was determined to have been hurt on a fielding play and not the HBP. What little national attention and goodwill that Pirate team is drawing will go out the window if they want to make much of a deal out of this or anything else. So yes, get Cole all warmed up--I'm sure you'll get Matt Williams' attention--and see how that ends for the Bucs.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Wherever his target was, that pitch was only 6 or so inches off the plate, not a foot as someone said. Watch the replay. Again, it was a breaking pitch that had little or no break, but the point is barely relevant. The rule is what it is. He could and I believe should have had it enforced.

And if Pittsburgh wants to get in a beanball war then I hope they go for it. Dbacks fans lost Goldschmidt for a 1/3 of last year as a result of Pirates pitching--pitching that led the league in batters hit by a wide margin. Then we had to listen to whining about retaliation for hitting McCutcheon, who later was determined to have been hurt on a fielding play and not the HBP. What little national attention and goodwill that Pirate team is drawing will go out the window if they want to make much of a deal out of this or anything else. So yes, get Cole all warmed up--I'm sure you'll get Matt Williams' attention--and see how that ends for the Bucs.

A pitcher doesn't throw the ball "over the plate". He hits spots.

I am the one who said a foot. Actually I said 18 inches. I said that he missed his spot by 18 inches. May have actually been more. It was an awful pitch and he cannot blame anyone but himself. He has said pretty much exactly this since then.

On a night of amazing pitches, this one was terrible.

Tom C

[nolemmings]

First of all, it was Orioles1954 who said "Scherzer threw the ball inside and missed the zone by about a foot.", so I was not responding to you.
Second, it doesn't matter where he was trying to throw it, and of course I recognize it was a bad pitch as did everyone else. That is irrelevant to whether the rule applies and whether Tabata deliberately tried to get hit. Are you suggesting that the rule should apply if Scherzer tried to throw a brushback pitch intentionally and just missed "his spot" by an inch or two, but since he threw a slower breaking pitch that didn't break and missed his target by a lot the rule somehow does not apply? That makes little sense.

Again, hats off to Scherzer all around. He probably does not have a right to rely on that rule being enforced, especially as it is a judgment call, but it would have been nice to see it and would not have cheapened anything had it been enforced, IMO. Personally, I think it was bush league of Tabata. I'm confident if that would have been Drysdale or Gibson out there in the 60's, Tabata could count on getting plunked a time or four thereafter. Hell Pedro and Randy Johnson likely would do the same. Time will tell.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

And if Pittsburgh wants to get in a beanball war then I hope they go for it. Dbacks fans lost Goldschmidt for a 1/3 of last year as a result of Pirates pitching--pitching that led the league in batters hit by a wide margin. Then we had to listen to whining about retaliation for hitting McCutcheon, who later was determined to have been hurt on a fielding play and not the HBP. What little national attention and goodwill that Pirate team is drawing will go out the window if they want to make much of a deal out of this or anything else. So yes, get Cole all warmed up--I'm sure you'll get Matt Williams' attention--and see how that ends for the Bucs.

They do like to pitch inside. Here I thought that was "playing the game the right way". My bad. I forgot millionaires can't have the ball come close to them.

And of course, getting revenge for losing your star is the exact same thing as getting revenge for losing a perfect game. Especially when the pitcher himself has already taken full responsibility for how terrible the pitch was. Again. My mistake. I guess I need to read up on this stuff.

Tom C