T206 Who should be a HOFer that isn't ???

[z28jd]

When you mention all that Donie Bush did in baseball, it points out that the HOF needs a category for career HOF'ers. Case in point, Charlie Grimm

.290 career hitter in 2166 games, drove in over 1000 runs. Very good career and I agree, not a HOF player.

19 years as a manager, 1287-1067 record, three NL pennants and I agree, not a HOF manager either, but you can't tell me that isn't a HOF career!

Dahlen will get in the HOF, now that WAR is a highly accepted stat to explain a player's value, you can't keep him out. Paul Molitor played 21 years, had a 75.4 WAR, Dahlen 21 years 75.2, one had no trouble getting in on the first ballot, the other has been retired for over 100 years, back when that WAR would have made him the sixth best position player ever up to that point.

When they put in Derek Jeter with 90+% of the votes and say, hey here is a shortstop with more value not in the HOF. Of course, you could say that with Barry Larkin, who basically had the same exact value as Jeter(aka not as good as Dahlen either) and he went in while waiting three long years, the poor guy

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by z28jd

When you mention all that Donie Bush did in baseball, it points out that the HOF needs a category for career HOF'ers. Case in point, Charlie Grimm

.290 career hitter in 2166 games, drove in over 1000 runs. Very good career and I agree, not a HOF player.

19 years as a manager, 1287-1067 record, three NL pennants and I agree, not a HOF manager either, but you can't tell me that isn't a HOF career!

Dahlen will get in the HOF, now that WAR is a highly accepted stat to explain a player's value, you can't keep him out. Paul Molitor played 21 years, had a 75.4 WAR, Dahlen 21 years 75.2, one had no trouble getting in on the first ballot, the other has been retired for over 100 years, back when that WAR would have made him the sixth best position player ever up to that point.

When they put in Derek Jeter with 90+% of the votes and say, hey here is a shortstop with more value not in the HOF. Of course, you could say that with Barry Larkin, who basically had the same exact value as Jeter(aka not as good as Dahlen either) and he went in while waiting three long years, the poor guy

Donnie Bush also had 1,800 hits and was considered one of the best fielding SS's in baseball.

"As a batter, Bush did not hit for high batting average but was regularly among the Major League leaders in drawing bases on balls, sacrifice hits, stolen bases, and runs scored. At the time of his retirement in 1923, Bush's 1,158 bases on balls ranked second in Major League history. His 337 sacrifice hits still ranks fifth in Major League history, and his 1909 total of 52 sacrifice hits is the fourth highest in Major League history. He ranked among the American League leaders in stolen bases ten times, and, during the decade from 1910 to 1919, the only players to score more runs than Bush were Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins, and Tris Speaker."

"He was recognized as one of the best defensive shortstops of the dead-ball era. He had more putouts, assists, and total chances than any other shortstop of the era, and his 1914 totals of 425 putouts and 969 chances are still American League records for shortstops (and the Major League record for putouts). He also led the American League in assists by a shortstop on five occasions and holds the Major League record with nine triple plays."

[RaidonCollects]

I highly agree with Bill Dinneen. Extremely overlooked.

-Pitched a no-hitter in '05
-Led the AL in saves in '03 and '07
-Stole the pennant of the Highlanders in the last game of the season (beating Jack Chesbro and his 41-win season in a pitching duel in '04)
-Pitched very well in the '03 series with a 3-1 record and pitching 11 strikeouts in Game 2
-Jimmy Collins listed him in the best 6 pitchers he had ever seen (with WaJo, Joss, Chesbro, Young and Ed Walsh
-4 20-win seasons (plus one in '87 in the minors)
-40 consecutive seasons in the majors (as player and umpire).
-Umpired the first half of the first AS game, plus 8 different WS and 5 no-no's.
-Ban Johnson (in a letter to Babe Ruth) said "Dinneen was one of the greatest pitchers the game ever produced" and "He is one of the cleanest and most honorable men baseball ever fostered"

Rant over

Hurry up Cooperstown

[Bpm0014]

Bill Dahlen
George Mullin

[Econteachert205]

Deacon phillippe

[Frank A]

None: If they haven't made it by now, forget it.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Frank A

None: If they haven't made it by now, forget it.

Interesting approach on the question ......... Wasn't expecting that one.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Interesting approach on the question ......... Wasn't expecting that one.

And it assumes that they have known what they are doing all this time too. That's a very interesting take since there are clearly plenty of strong candidates from the 1800's as well

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by z28jd

And it assumes that they have known what they are doing all this time too. That's a very interesting take since there are clearly plenty of strong candidates from the 1800's as well

Agreed. Tony mullane for one.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by z28jd

And it assumes that they have known what they are doing all this time too. That's a very interesting take since there are clearly plenty of strong candidates from the 1800's as well

Like Jimmy Ryan and Tip O'Neil, who has been enshrined in the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame for many years.

[Topps206]

I would not vote for Ed Reulbach.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I would not vote for Ed Reulbach.

Leon, please end this thread....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I would not vote for Ed Reulbach.

So who would you vote for dumb ass???

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

So who would you vote for dumb ass???

once again captain crass has nothing of merit to add and stomps his feet, turns red and throws a tantrum. yer like 80 right? maybe you should act like it.

[insccollectibles]

Dahlen will most likely be a Hall of Famer when he is eligible again.

From Wikipedia:
Dahlen was included on the Veterans Committee ballot for 2013 induction to the Hall of Fame. The results were announced on December 3, 2012. Dahlen received 10 out of 16 votes, falling 2 votes short of election, the highest total of any person on the ballot who was not elected and will have to wait until the end of 2015 for election.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by insccollectibles

Dahlen will most likely be a Hall of Famer when he is eligible again.

From Wikipedia:
Dahlen was included on the Veterans Committee ballot for 2013 induction to the Hall of Fame. The results were announced on December 3, 2012. Dahlen received 10 out of 16 votes, falling 2 votes short of election, the highest total of any person on the ballot who was not elected and will have to wait until the end of 2015 for election.

I've always wondered how it would effect the card in the set of a player if they actually get inducted.

[insccollectibles]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I've always wondered how it would effect the card in the set of a player if they actually get inducted.

His Boston card already sells for a premium but it will most likely go up some after the election. The Brooklyn card is of course considered rarer and sells for a good price already but will most likely go up as well.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by insccollectibles

His Boston card already sells for a premium but it will most likely go up some after the election. The Brooklyn card is of course considered rarer and sells for a good price already but will most likely go up as well.

Thought it was his Brooklyn card ??? I have a Boston one and that would make me happy if it's Boston.

[insccollectibles]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Thought it was his Brooklyn card ??? I have a Boston one and that would make me happy if it's Boston.

Sorry I meant the Boston card is selling at a much higher premium than most other non hall of famers.