PSA: N1:Evidence of Trimming

[pclpads]

Sorry this happened to you. Your chances of a refund or an adjustment, if seller stated, "No returns," are likely slim and none . . . and slim just left the room. As Leon always says, "caveat emptor." There is probably a good reason why possibly the most in-demand card in that set isn't in a graded slab. Unfortunately, I think you just found out.

[jcc6252]

Hiking boots are ready. You're right, I think his description is good enough to cover his backside. After reading your posts, I figure there is a good chance he knew it was trimmed. If so, he may be even less likely to grant a refund.

Thanks for all your input and support. If I don't get a satisfactory response from the seller, and end up trying to sell it, I will certainly include the label from PSA for all prospective buyers to see.

[bobbyw8469]

I would send it to SGC and see what they say. If it is indeed trimmed, have them slab it as authentic. Even trimmed, it still looks nicer than those piss poor PSA 1's that sell for $150-$200. Some sellers just want a nice card, no matter that it is trimmed.

[glchen]

I think it looks like the top edge is trimmed, so I don't think it'll be able to get a number grade. It's still worth something Authentic as others have said.

[drcy]

My opinion is since he picked the Vg grade, he should give a return due to the trimming. I perfectly understand the Vg grade is not a card grade and appears to apply to CDs and the like, but if you read the description it covers major defaults, missing parts and damage. With trading cards, trimming is considered a major fault/damage/missing piece that would seem to be covered by the Very Good grade.

That's just my opinion.

If he hadn't clicked that or other grade box, I would have a different opinion. In fact, if he had merely said in the description "Guaranteed authentic," I would have a different opinion, because as card collectors know trimmed cards can grade "authentic." If someone says only "Guaranteed authentic" he's saying "I ain't saying anything about condition or anything else other than the card is genuine." "Guaranteed authentic and unaltered" is a different phrase, and one that some sellers of raw cards use.

But in the end, it says one should expect a more explicit description about condition/alteration and/or ask questions, in particular if the intent is to submit for a number grade. Other than clicking that ebay vg box, the seller says nothing about condition. I sell on eBay, and bidders regularly send me questions about the item and wait for answers before placing a bid.

[packs]

I don't know. It seems clear in the description that his intentions with the "Very Good" condition choice is not the same as him saying "PSA 3 VG" or "SGC 40 VG". It's more like this card is used but still in nice condition for it's age.

[Edwolf1963]

I believe you can press the issue with eBay (Buyer Protection) and force the refund if he refuses. Considered "not as described", no notation of trimming or alteration in the auction. You will win that battle if you choose to take it up.

[drcy]

That was just my opinion/personal interpretation after reading what eBay's 'very good' specifically says. I also gave this interpretation because there are lower ebay grades for authentic items from which to choose. According to eBay, very good means the item (if music CD) is used and may have expected wear, but is whole and all the parts and pieces are there and there is no major damage/wear. Ebay's lower grades are for when parts (including CD case or booklet) are missing and there is major damage or defect. For many to most card collectors, undisclosed trimming is the worst possible defect for a card, and may even qualify as "parts missing." I understand others disagree with my reading and that's fine. I'm just offering my opinion, not trying to be arbiter. Maybe even eBay will disagree with my opinion.

But, as I also said or implied, if one is buying raw cards to get number graded for flipping, it's prudent to buy from sellers who guarantee, or at least mention, the card is authentic and unaltered. If this seller said, in description or personal message, the card was unaltered, then there would be no question here about whether or not he should accept a return. In this case, the seller says nothing about condition in the description and apparently the winner didn't ask, which results in this thread having different opinions on the matter.

[K-Nole]

100% agree with bobbyw8469,
Send it SGC and have them slab it Authentic (obviously trimmed top left, notice other corners are a bit soft, but upper left is sharp as a razor).
It still will bring you more on the flip side if you sell, then if you sell it RAW, and even if it is trimmed, it is still a pretty sweet card!!!

[bigfanNY]

IMHO I completely disagree with the advice others have given. The card was listed as being in VG shape and a trimmed card is not VG in anybody's book. and although outside Ebay's 30 day window to file they may be willing to step up. Paypal has a protection policy as well and it might help. BOTTOM LINE it is just not cool to sell trimmed cards. And when a TPG finds evidence of Trimming any seller should offer to take the card back. No one likes getting stuck with trimmed cards but it is not ok to crack them out and sell them on ebay and hope the clock ticks before it gets returned by the TPG. On the other hand if seller did not know then he should not have said it was in VG shape should have said he will only say it is authentic and grading is in eye of beholder. Seller absolutely should take the card back. Always two sides of a coin and that is the side I land on.

J

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

IMHO I completely disagree with the advice others have given. The card was listed as being in VG shape and a trimmed card is not VG in anybody's book.
J

That's a totally reasonable position to take and to be honest, if I were the seller, I'd take the card back.

That said, just as a heads up, the Very Good condition isn't the same as a VG grade. eBay's condition categories are completely different than what we use to grade cards. Instead of Mint, Near Mint, EX, etc., their categories are: Brand New, Like New, Very Good, Good, and Acceptable. Why they use them for cards is beyond me - they're more for items like clothing, DVDs, etc.

Technically, calling a trimmed card Very Good, even by their standards, is probably still wrong. But it's just hard to prove that the seller knew it was as such.

[Jantz]

"In PSA We Trust"

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

And that my friends is why graders are valuable