OT - Patriots Deflate Report

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm more upset about the idiotic pass call at the end of the Super Bowl than I am about the under-inflated balls. The NFL should investigate Pete Carroll's brain.

That will go down in history as possibly the worst call of all time. I couldn't believe it. Carroll should be proud of himself.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

That will go down in history as possibly the worst call of all time. I couldn't believe it. Carroll should be proud of himself.

I think possibly the worst call in the history of sports. It was that bad.

[Orioles1954]

Who knows if the deflation gave them a competitive advantage or was simply a result of testing the balls. What matters is that they, mainly Brady, clearly lied to investigators about knowledge of efforts to deflate footballs. That is what requires some amount of disciplinary action on the part of the NFL.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Who knows if the deflation gave them a competitive advantage or was simply a result of testing the balls. What matters is that they, mainly Brady, clearly lied to investigators about knowledge of efforts to deflate footballs. That is what requires some amount of disciplinary action on the part of the NFL.

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

[Runscott]

Some of the logic used in this thread is baffling.

[byrone]

From the good folks at The Onion



NFL Investigating Whether Patriots Played Game With Properly Inflated Vince Wilfork





http://www.theonion.com/section/sports/

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

Why should the sports lesson for kids be any different from what we show them in business (i.e. finance, oil, pharmaceutical, politics, etc...)? The most successful people in all of these fields are the ones that push the rules right to the edge of the law. There was nothing in the Wells report that explicitly demonstrated that Brady said "hey guys, I want you to break the rules of the game...".

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

I find it no different than old school pitchers hiding Vaseline on their bodies or using a bottle cap to scratch up the ball. It's ingenuity to me. Whitey Ford, Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton and Tommy John have all admitted to it. Some of the greats back in the day used to do it as well.

Heck, Mickey Mantle and Pete Rose have been thought to use corked bats. I think it's fun watching players try to get away with these things.

[tsalem]

Ok, so 3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start. WOW!
Also, the way I read it, Brady had overinflated balls (I think it was during a Jets game) at almost 16psi. I'm sure he wanted them "deflated" - but to say he wanted to cheat and set them below the 12.5 level - I see no proof.

Maybe i'm wrong but I just don't see the smoking gun here

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tsalem

Ok, so 3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start. WOW!
Also, the way I read it, Brady had overinflated balls (I think it was during a Jets game) at almost 16psi. I'm sure he wanted them "deflated" - but to say he wanted to cheat and set them below the 12.5 level - I see no proof.

Maybe i'm wrong but I just don't see the smoking gun here

I think we should throw out the 144 page report and go with your paragraph above. Clearly you have a much better idea about what happened. Thanks for sharing - you saved me having to read the sports page today.

[packs]

I know Brady and the Patriots are trying to pass this off as a non-issue, but in all seriousness you obviously under inflated the ball because it gave you an advantage you didn't have when the ball was properly inflated. That to me is the key issue.

You can't change the past but the NCAA does make a habit of stripping titles to prove a point. I don't think the NFL can turn back the clock in the same way. But I do think the Patriots should be losing a ton of draft picks in the coming years and Brady should be suspended. They suspended Josh Gordon for almost a full year for smoking weed. Brady should get at least the same punishment for cheating.

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by packs

I know Brady and the Patriots are trying to pass this off as a non-issue, but in all seriousness you obviously under inflated the ball because it gave you an advantage you didn't have when the ball was properly inflated. That to me is the key issue.

You can't change the past but the NCAA does make a habit of stripping titles to prove a point. I don't think the NFL can turn back the clock in the same way. But I do think the Patriots should be losing a ton of draft picks in the coming years and Brady should be suspended. They suspended Josh Gordon for almost a full year for smoking weed. Brady should get at least the same punishment for cheating.

3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start.

[wolf441]

Maybe the Pats over-inflated Seattle's ball before their last offensive play of the Super Bowl....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNf8wT5t8V8

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Who knows if the deflation gave them a competitive advantage or was simply a result of testing the balls. What matters is that they, mainly Brady, clearly lied to investigators about knowledge of efforts to deflate footballs. That is what requires some amount of disciplinary action on the part of the NFL.

It will never happen. Why would the NFL " discipline " Brady? You can't fine him, and he certainly won't be required to miss games during the season. He will cost the NFL too much money if they suspend him for regular season games. Like him or not, Brady is still a HoF QB, and still would have won the games the Pats won and lost the games the Pats lost regardless of the football inflation. Again, most are making WAY too much out of a football that has been under inflated.

That said, what do your REASONABLY suggest in terms of a " discipline " for Brady.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

It will never happen. Why would the NFL " discipline " Brady? You can't fine him, and he certainly won't be required to miss games during the season. He will cost the NFL too much money if they suspend him for regular season games. Like him or not, Brady is still a HoF QB, and still would have won the games the Pats won and lost the games the Pats lost regardless of the football inflation. Again, most are making WAY too much out of a football that has been under inflated.

That said, what do your REASONABLY suggest in terms of a " discipline " for Brady.

The NFL only cares about perceptions and not justice. After receiving some black eyes from the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson situations they'll come down hard on Brady. My guess is suspension of 2-4 games and loss of a draft pick(s).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The NFL only cares about perceptions and not justice. After receiving some black eyes from the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson situations they'll come down hard on Brady. My guess is suspension of 2-4 games and loss of a draft pick(s).

Yeah, compared to knocking a woman senseless or beating a kid, "probably" knowing someone took a little air out of the football is a big deal. The resources devoted to this, as opposed to fixing the real problems in football (rampant domestic violence, concussions, etc.) is ridiculous.

[nolemmings]

It is about perception, and integrity of the game. IMO, people have at least a slight understanding that the NFL cannot very easily control players' lives off the field and that violence is a societal issue which, while PC demands an unforgiving, who-can-be-the-most outraged response, is often very complicated in its circumstances. People may wish to see nothing but choirboys, role models and medal of honor winners all over the field but, falling short of that, they at least believe and generally insist upon watching something where the flawed humans are engaged in a contest with common equipment and basic rules designed to create an even playing field. They are not necessarily Pollyannaish to think players are not trying to grab an edge, but nonetheless do not look kindly on rules breakers, especially those who show no contrition. If the game isn't fair and square, and if the League doesn't act as if its rules are all that important, there is both disgust and distrust at the game going forward.

My two cents.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, compared to knocking a woman senseless or beating a kid, "probably" knowing someone took a little air out of the football is a big deal. The resources devoted to this, as opposed to fixing the real problems in football (rampant domestic violence, concussions, etc.) is ridiculous.

Track record and lying.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The NFL only cares about perceptions and not justice. After receiving some black eyes from the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson situations they'll come down hard on Brady. My guess is suspension of 2-4 games and loss of a draft pick(s).

With all due respect, I would be shocked if that happened. See below everyone..

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/08/nfl-in...pressure-rule/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...own-footballs/

[steve B]

So as a Pats fan............

When the whole thing began I figured there was a technical explanation.

But, between the texts and the odd pattern of Brady all of a sudden communicating with the equipment guys he hasn't called for months and calling one into what's essentially his office which hadn't happened since before Brady - something like 20 years.

That to me looks very much like something was up.

Enough that there should probably be some punishment.

The guesses on the radio station I listen to - Rock, not sports, was that it would be one game for Brady, he'd appeal until after the season opener, then take his one game off. The rumor was that a "source" in the league office said 4 games for Brady. All with the team and Coach in the clear since there was no evidence they knew about it (Since the NFL spent big bucks checking I'll go with that even though I don't believe it) And I think either would be entirely appropriate.

-------------------
The other side of how I feel about it.

The rule isn't well written, either from a technical standpoint or from a clarity standpoint. It doesn't actually say the balls have to remain inflated - except the home team has a responsibility to provide "playable" balls at all times. 12 primary ones and 12 backups which apparently weren't used and possibly weren't deflated. And it mentions no penalty. Except in a totally different section where the commissioner can investigate and punish "extraordinarily unfair acts" - To me also vague. What's extraordinarily unfair as opposed to just unfair or sort of unfair? Could I put together a team of lazy guys and then say it's extraordinarily unfair they have to play a team that practices? Yeah, a bit over the top but it makes the point.

From everything I've read it seems the handling of the balls is very lax, and even the refs might push the limits. The one text complaining about the refs making some of the balls more like 16 psi is interesting. Did they just pump them up by feel, or did they know some would be let out and cover for it by deliberately overinflating? And if that's the case that crew should get the same suspension.
-----------------
In a more general sense-

I've never bought the NCAA style stripping of titles for a team sport. It makes some sense with individual sports where it's more clear the winner wouldn't have won without cheating. Lance should have been stripped of his 7 wins. without doping he probably wouldn't have won all of them. He might have won a couple, but not all 7. Oddly, a few of those years there isn't a clean rider for several positions. If you figure they were always on something you'd have to remove a few riders. I also think there were people at the top of the UCI that should have also been banned. The one statement another rider made that someone came in and said "the test was positive but Nike took care of it" to me is very telling.

But for a team sport? Nonsense. Stripping a college team of a title because one really good player gets some cash from a booster, or a job, or someone does a bit of recruiting at the wrong time very much does a disservice the rest of the team, especially the second stringers who worked just as hard sometimes knowing that the only way they'd see the inside of a pro stadium was as a spectator. And all at the same time they're making millions from the kids who aren't allowed to make anything if there's any connection to the team at all.


Steve B

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The NFL only cares about perceptions and not justice.

10000% agree with this statement. The very nice bi-product of this story for the league though is that every minute of airtime this story gets (and it will get lots), it deflects attention from any/all of the league's other serious issues.

To prior comments about concussions, the blind eye the league's turned toward this and other player disabilities is disgraceful. IMO, it's in line with the "doctors" who for years denied that smoking increased one's risk for cancer. Also love that the guy who headed the NFL's concussion research was a rheumatologist. I'm sure he's a smart guy, but they didn't think a neurologist may be more qualified??

Don't get me wrong, I love football.. loved playing, love watching.. but think the NFL is a pretty disgusting entity overall. The NCAA is right behind it.

There's plenty of info out there, but felt the below old snippet (2006) from the LA Times summed it up nicely. It's amazing how long the league's been able to mostly deflect this topic, and their bogus doctors and studies have helped the cause. IMO- letting some air out of balls doesn't sniff this (nor any number of other issues, including salary cap violations, added stadium noise, etc) in importance. But IMO the NFL PR men say-- "YES!! Please keep talking about Deflate Gate all off-season, please please!!"

Concussions, it seems, are the NFL's dirty little secret. It's not just that they happen so often, but that the league doesn't seem to be doing much about it.

Sure, the NFL says it has had a committee of doctors studying them since 1994. But experts in the field say the league's studies are flawed, use suspect data, and don't stand up to peer review.

So when the NFL says no evidence has been found that brain function declines as a result of a concussion, the news is greeted with skepticism in the medical community.

"What the NFL allegedly finds is totally at odds with scores of publications that are out there," said Dr. Robert Cantu, a neurologist and leading expert in brain injuries at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. "The stuff the NFL is putting out is just not the way the thinking is in the community of sports medicine and specialists with expertise in this area."

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

My guess is suspension of 2-4 games and loss of a draft pick(s).

And you would be right, sir...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12...ts-deflategate

Edited to add: And a $1M fine.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Two games when Ray Rice knocks a woman senseless, nothing in response to numerous prior reports of domestic violence, nothing in response to littered bodies and brains everywhere (just ask Dr. Robert Cantu), and four games for "probably" knowing a football was slightly deflated. The NFL is really bleeped up.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Leon

That will go down in history as possibly the worst call of all time. I couldn't believe it. Carroll should be proud of himself.

And even with that call, if Wilson makes a good throw, Seattle scores.