T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

[tedzan]

Hi Cory

Great cards....thanks for posting your DRUM's and HINDU's.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Here's another mis-print, this one tells us that John Titus and Tony Smith were adjacent cards on this printed sheet.






TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Knowledgeable T205 collectors believe that the T205 Minor Leaguers were printed late in 1911 (or 1912) based on the bios of 8 of these subjects. According to my T205 Exclusive 12 theory
there is a high probability that these 12 subjects were printed on a sheet of their own separate from the other 196 subjects in the T205 set.







However, the aesthetic design of these 12 cards is very similar to American Lithographic's (ALC) non-sports cards of 1911....such as the Military Series cards depicted here.

T80 examples
. .
. .

We have actual proof from an ALC ledger that the T80's were issued as early as Feb 1911. And, a T80 and a T206 were both inserted in Cigarette packs in that timeline.
Furthermore, was the artwork for the Minor Leaguers created by the same artist that created the T80's early in 1911 ?

But, for whatever reasons the Minor Leaguers were then shelved until very late in 1911, when these 12 guys were printed and issued.

Personally, I favor the design of these Minor Leaguers over the design of the 196 - T205 Major Leaguers.


TED Z
.

[Econteachert205]

Since the t206 sheet threads have been so huge I was wondering when the 05s would get some love. I especially would want to know because of the nature of the sp's and how the sheets were put together. Thanks for all the work Ted!

[bn2cardz]

It would be a great help if PSA would start showing love to the t205 set. They still just label them as Gold Border (same as t207 being listed only as 'brown background'). They don't indicate back advertisements not alone factory like they do with t206. That would really help. For this reason I wouldn't get any t205 or t206 graded with PSA anymore.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Since the t206 sheet threads have been so huge I was wondering when the 05s would get some love. I especially would want to know because of the nature of the sp's and how the sheets were put together. Thanks for all the work Ted!

Dennis

I appreciate the compliment.

Regarding printed sheet arrangements, illustrated here is my hypothetical simulated sheet of 48 cards of the Minor Leaguers. I could expand this format to as many as 108 cards
that would fill-out a standard 18" x 24" size sheet that was used by American Lithographic for their small size lithographic projects in that era.

Note that this arrangement is only 48 cards due to the 18 image limitation on Net54 posts.















TED Z
.

[EvilKing00]

That handford card still bothers me, with the red background. Why is he the only one? Some responded cause of the team. Hes the inly jersey guy, could be. Where there supposed to be more jersey guys? Probably. Love the mystery as well as the beauty if the set.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

That handford card still bothers me, with the red background. Why is he the only one? Some responded cause of the team. Hes the inly jersey guy, could be. Where there supposed to be more jersey guys? Probably. Love the mystery as well as the beauty if the set.

Hanford should have been captioned with Montreal (instead of Jersey City). It's an error card, both in Team and in color.









TED Z
.

[EvilKing00]

Hey ted, interesting. Never realized he was on mon at the time of the print. But the red name... Why red when everyone else was yellow? Every hanford name is red so it was structured

[whelenfan]

very interesting indeed, I had never noticed that before!

[gfgcom]

I know this is an old post, but I have just picked up a

neal ball Naps
jacob stahl red sox

both with the hindu back

[gfgcom]

new pick up

[tedzan]

The following is a list of the Black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY subjects that I'm aware of in the T205 set.

I have 32 confirmed listed here....however, I have been informed that there are 33.
Please check out this list and tell me who the 33rd guy is.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


Thanks much,

TED Z
.

[T205 GB]

Ted I have 32 on my list also. Not sure who said there are 33. I may be wrong though.

[CW]

Interesting thread on a great, underrated set. Thanks for posting all the cards, guys.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The following is a list of the Black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY subjects that I'm aware of in the T205 set.

I have 32 confirmed listed here....however, I have been informed that there are 33.
Please check out this list and tell me who the 33rd guy is.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


Thanks much,

TED Z
.

I apologize if that was from my signature. It was a typo I noticed after reading your post. My spread sheet has 32.

[tedzan]

I was told of a possible 33rd AB (black ink) card from an old T205 collector friend of mine.

Also, I had noticed that you had "33" noted in your signature, so I was wondering if there are 33 - T205's with this back.


Andrew W. and Andy N.

Thanks for confirming the 32 number.


TED Z
.

[AddieJoss]

Are there also a total of 32 total Broadleaf backs?

[tedzan]

The following 32 subjects have been confirmed with the BROAD LEAF back.

Note that this list is exactly identical to the previously listed black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY backs (in Post #38).

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

You can call me a "nut", but here is another challenge. If you have achieved the aforementioned "quadruplicate" sub-set for a given T205 subject (Post 19), then extend it
to a "Quintuplicate" sub-set by adding a moderately tough SWEET CAPORAL (Factory #42) card to this group to achieve this 5-card series.
All 32 subjects that are possible with DRUM backs will invariably be found with this red colored SWEET CAP back.


-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------



Of course, it goes without saying, the real challenge in this game is to find Jack Quinn's BROAD LEAF and DRUM cards.



I first started collecting this pattern with my T206's. My favorite T206 image is the blue Chase; and, I have been searching for 34 years for the DRUM
to complete this Quintuplucate sub-set. However, no DRUM card of the blue Chase has ever been confirmed. I'm beginning to wonder if this Hal Chase
card was ever printed with a DRUM back.







TED Z
.

[T205 GB]

Just got out my miscut fronts and ghost today

Paskert ghost
Stone MC front top w/AB back
Gaspar/Gaspar
Bescher top MC
Street/Bresnahan mouth closed
Richie vert MC
Titus/Beck vert MC

[bn2cardz]

Since there are some errors showing up, here is what I have retained:

[Econteachert205]

The 32 cards previously mentioned... would they be considered as to have been printed more than the others in the set, or does their having been printed with so many different backs not effect production runs as they simply had smaller numbers with more backs?