The "Very Good Hall of Fame"

[39special]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Tim Salmon? .282 AVG, 299 HR, 1,016 RBI. Never even an All Star. Not once.

Those numbers would be pedestrian in any era. But in one of the greatest offensive eras in history, he puts up those numbers? He's nowhere close to being a Hall of Famer.

Moises Alou. Numbers are a little better, but never led the league in a single statistical category. No.

Ellis Burks? One top ten MVP finish, and that was a season he hit .344 AVG, 40 HR and 128 RBI....in Colorado. Two other top 20 MVP votes in 18 seasons. Two time All Star.

None of these guys are even close to being Hall of Fame worthy.

Bill,this is for guys that are not quite Hall of Famers.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by 39special

Bill,this is for guys that are not quite Hall of Famers.

You know, that's my bad for misreading how this was being done. I knew we were nominating very good players, but it almost looked like they were meant to replace some people who were in Cooperstown, but didn't belong there.

So we're making a separate Very Good Hall of Fame, which will be comprised of players we nominate, AND take from the current Hall of Fame that do not belong there.

I gotcha. Packs, my apologies. Those guys you listed would be very good for the Very Good Hall of Fame.

[the 'stache]

I am going to nominate one of my all-time favorite players, Cecil Cooper.

Or, as we called him in Milwaukee...

"Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop"

Screw Lando Calrissian. Cecil Cooper should have been pitching Colt 45, not Billy Dee Williams. Billy Dee wishes he was as smooth as Cecil Cooper.


Coop's got his smooth on. Eat your heart out, ladies.

The man could do everything better than 99.5% of the human beings on the planet when he was in his prime. He was just unlucky. If he had even an ounce of luck, we'd be talking about Cooper for Cooperstown, not the "Very Good Hall of Fame".

I mean, come on, his name is Cooper. Has there ever been a man more perfect for Cooperstown?

The man could field. He had two Gold Gloves, and would have had more, but unfortunately he had George Scott before him, and Eddie Murray and Don Mattingly after him.

The man could hit. Between 1977 and 1985, nobody in baseball had more hits than Cooper, who had 1,613 hits in that span, including three 200 hit seasons, and three others with 193, 185 and 182. Only Jim Rice, Mike Schmidt, Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield, four Hall of Famers, had more total bases than Cooper's 2,534. Only Rice, Murray, Schmidt, Winfield and George Foster had more RBIs than Cooper's 833.

Cooper was a 5 time All Star, and besides his two Gold Gloves, he won two Silver Slugger Awards. He finished 5th in the American League MVP vote three times in a four year period (1980, 1981 and 1983). During that four year period, he led Major League Baseball in total bases (1,222), RBI (429), hits (760). His .323 average was fourth best in the Majors over that span.

Career numbers? Cooper finished with a .298 AVG, scored 1,012 runs, had 415 doubles, 241 home runs, 1,125 RBI. He had 2,192 hits.

The thing that's most frustrating as a Cooper fan is that he didn't play more than 123 games in a season until he was 27 years old. In 305 at bats in 1975, he hit .311 with a .900 OPS, and he only played 123 games in 1976. Think of where his career numbers would have ended up had he been a starter earlier in his career. From age 27 to 35, Cooper was a .309 hitter. Look at Cooper's numbers per 162 games played from age 27 to 33, and tell me that he wouldn't have warranted serious Hall consideration.

.312 AVG, 96 runs, 198 hits, 38 doubles, 5 triples, 25 home runs, 105 RBI.

I figure he should have probably played another 400 games in his career. He'd have ended his career near or slightly over 2,700 hits, 500 doubles, 350 home runs, 1,400 RBI. I still don't think he gets in, but he would have gotten more attention from voters.

How bad was his luck? His best season was 1980 when he had 219 hits, 25 home runs, a league leading 122 RBI, a league leading 335 total bases, a .926 OPS, and he hit .352. He finished second in the batting race because, unfortunately for him, that's the season George Brett decided to hit .390!

Bad luck, lol.

[SmokyBurgess]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

You know, that's my bad for misreading how this was being done. I knew we were nominating very good players, but it almost looked like they were meant to replace some people who were in Cooperstown, but didn't belong there.

So we're making a separate Very Good Hall of Fame, which will be comprised of players we nominate, AND take from the current Hall of Fame that do not belong there.

I gotcha. Packs, my apologies. Those guys you listed would be very good for the Very Good Hall of Fame.

LOL...sorry for messing you up

[packs]

Jeeze I was going to say Tim Salmon averaged 29 homers 98 rbis and a 282 average over 14 years. That's very good in my book.

Haha same goes for Alou and Ellis Burks. These guys were all very good but never elite. Although I think a case could eventually be made for Alou considering he was PED cloud-free and put up some pretty sharp numbers in a steroid era.

[Econteachert205]

Did anyone say jamie Moyer? If not then him.

[Runscott]

Frank Howard and Sam McDowell. Also Don Mattingly, Paul O'Neill and Albert Belle.

I can't think of anyone who is out and should be in at the expense of current members, but I do think quite a few should be removed.

[glynparson]

Bill Madlock
Orel Hershiser
Kevin Brown
David Cone
Kent Hrbek
Tony Pena
Kent Tekeulve

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Frank Howard and Sam McDowell. Also Don Mattingly, Paul O'Neill and Albert Belle.

I can't think of anyone who is out and should be in at the expense of current members, but I do think quite a few should be removed.

Albert Belle belongs in the real HOF. He actually was the feared hitter revisionists like to claim Jim Rice was. And had the ridiculous numbers to back it up.

[Section103]

Will Clark.

[danski496]

Baines