Are some cards too rare for their own good?

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

The fact is...cards like the uber rare oj anson...the allegheny's...the T216 VE's...the T206 doyle variation...don't get discussed much. They routinely appear on "10 best lists" and lists of most desirable cards by more advanced collectors due to their rarity.

But what is there to talk about? With 1 or 2 in existence...we don't know much of anything about them? If there were only 1 or 2 T206 ghosts out there...would there be numerous threads devoted to them...NO WAY!

If 1 T206 set were ever produced as a prototype that never went into production...would it be the focus of this board...NO WAY!

I agree with you on this one. Learning about rare cards is interesting but there is only so much to discuss. The convo runs short when 1 collector discusses a card nobody else has.

[clydepepper]

There is a feeling that comes from having a true 1-of-1 - knowing that no one else has exactly what you have - and that feeling is priceless. I know that there are a few members who own Alegehenys and that's the feeling I'm talking about.

I probably will never be able to purchase another one, but what I have is always 'emitting' that 'golden fleese' vibe.

I occasionally purchase modern 1/1 cards for the same reason, though it is different when it's 'artificially rare'.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

There is a feeling that comes from having a true 1-of-1 - knowing that no one else has exactly what you have - and that feeling is priceless. I know that there are a few members who own Alegehenys and that's the feeling I'm talking about.

I probably will never be able to purchase another one, but what I have is always 'emitting' that 'golden fleese' vibe.

Of course you can, the dealer you had originally purchased your Allegheny cards from had about two dozen 1904 Allegheny cards for sale in his case at the National in Cleveland this past August, and probably still has them. I was able to purchase one common from him for a reasonable price and had a great conversation with him about the set, but other than myself, he wasn't really getting a lot of interest or buyers for the others he had on display. As a bit of a type collector I just wanted to be able to say I owned one.

And you actually helped me to get that one at a reasonable price. I believe it was the weekend just before the National that you had put an Allegheny card up on Ebay for sale, and I used that price to negotiate with the dealer. He even said he remembered selling you several Allegheny cards, and pretty much confirmed to me that your Ebay sale was at a loss.

This sort of confirms what Leon was bringing up about these rare cards not getting as much interest (or value) because they are so rare. You would have expected this dealer to have sold out the ones he had at the National pretty quickly had there been a lot of interest in them. Word of mouth would have gotten around the National fairly fast if these were really desirable. I had only been that aware of them because of that recent Ebay sale just before the National, which caught my eye and piqued my interest. Still, they do not go cheaply in relation to most other cards from the early 1900's.

You can also compare these 1904 Allegheny cards to the 1921 Herpolsheimer cards, which are also all 1 of 1s, though the Herpolsheimers appear to go for quite a bit less. Possibly due to the fact they are more recent than the 1904 Allegheny cards and that most all of them have a written dollar amount on the backs in pencil, but still all 1 of 1s. If either of these issues were to trade a little more often, they may start to see a bump up in value. Otherwise, unless it is a type card collector looking for an example of that issue, or a specific player collector looking for that card of the player he collects, most mainstream collectors go right past these auctions/sales of such ultra-rare cards when they do come up.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by BobC

Of course you can, the dealer you had originally purchased your Allegheny cards from had about two dozen 1904 Allegheny cards for sale in his case at the National in Cleveland this past August, and probably still has them. I was able to purchase one common from him for a reasonable price and had a great conversation with him about the set, but other than myself, he wasn't really getting a lot of interest or buyers for the others he had on display. As a bit of a type collector I just wanted to be able to say I owned one.

And you actually helped me to get that one at a reasonable price. I believe it was the weekend just before the National that you had put an Allegheny card up on Ebay for sale, and I used that price to negotiate with the dealer. He even said he remembered selling you several Allegheny cards, and pretty much confirmed to me that your Ebay sale was at a loss.

This sort of confirms what Leon was bringing up about these rare cards not getting as much interest (or value) because they are so rare. You would have expected this dealer to have sold out the ones he had at the National pretty quickly had there been a lot of interest in them. Word of mouth would have gotten around the National fairly fast if these were really desirable. I had only been that aware of them because of that recent Ebay sale just before the National, which caught my eye and piqued my interest. Still, they do not go cheaply in relation to most other cards from the early 1900's.

You can also compare these 1904 Allegheny cards to the 1921 Herpolsheimer cards, which are also all 1 of 1s, though the Herpolsheimers appear to go for quite a bit less. Possibly due to the fact they are more recent than the 1904 Allegheny cards and that most all of them have a written dollar amount on the backs in pencil, but still all 1 of 1s. If either of these issues were to trade a little more often, they may start to see a bump up in value. Otherwise, unless it is a type card collector looking for an example of that issue, or a specific player collector looking for that card of the player he collects, most mainstream collectors go right past these auctions/sales of such ultra-rare cards when they do come up.

+1...I used to have the 21 herpolsheimer cobb...and the t207 red cross lowdy...and the m101-6 ruth(yankees)...all rare cards...all I sold before their time...except for lowdy of which I do not believe will ever be the right time!!!! A good example of a card too rare for its own good. Also recently inquired about the 53-55 howard photo willie mays...a rare...early willie mays card...of which there are 6 on the pop reports...very little info and interest.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

+1...I used to have the 21 herpolsheimer cobb...and the t207 red cross lowdy...and the m101-6 ruth(yankees)...all rare cards...all I sold before their time...except for lowdy of which I do not believe will ever be the right time!!!! A good example of a card too rare for its own good. Also recently inquired about the 53-55 howard photo willie mays...a rare...early willie mays card...of which there are 6 on the pop reports...very little info and interest.

I hear you Pete. I've got a '21 Herpolsheimer McGraw myself, and know there are other Net54 members with various other players from that set as well that have them sitting in their collections and are not looking to sell them any time soon. They are all 1 of 1s, but not that valuable as the set is impossible to complete and they rarely, if ever, come up for sale.

The other cards you mentioned are all amazing as well. As with everything else, the value is always going to be dependent on supply and demand. Even if a super rare card comes up for sale/auction, if there aren't at least two seriously interested parties going after it, chances are it won't go for what it may really be worth. And because some of these issues are so tough and rare, collectors aren't actively watching for them like they may be other things they more commonly collect. And thus it is even more possible that you don't get all the potentially interested bidders involved, and the item goes for less than it otherwise should/would.

[BobC]

And the desirability of the actual issue also plays a big part in the value of such ultra-rare cards. For example, Ty Cobb is easily one of the most recognizable names from the early 20th century amongst ballplayers. His T206 prices have been shooting up in recent years, with the recent find of the several Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back cards possibly being the penultimate and most publicized find of Cobb cards in recent history. Obviously the value for these is tremendous, coupled with the interest and story of the find and the rarity involved.

However, if you look at Ty Cobb cards and the rarity of issues and tobacco brands, the S74-1 white version silks have Ty Cobb in the issue, same image as appears on his T205 card, and they have one ultra rare tobacco brand that Cobb appears with from Helmar tobacco. There are only two or three Helmar backed Cobb silks known to even exist, which is so much rarer than even Ty Cobb tobacco Cobb cards, yet a Helmar - Cobb silk will go for nowhere near what a Ty Cobb tobacco Cobb T206 would go for.

In this particular instance it is also probable that the silk gets a lower value due to the fact that PSA will not grade them, and thus you don't get the registry crowd interested in the set either.