Thanks Adrian!

[Leon]

I think he has mental issues and if he got those under control would be a different person. That being said the things he said were enough to get him banned from this forum. They were unacceptable on any level.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think he has mental issues and if he got those under control would be a different person. That being said the things he said were enough to get him banned from this forum. They were unacceptable on any level.

This reminds me of the auction description that stated "Smith would have been a superstar if he only could have hit... if he could have boosted his average to the standards of the day, Smith might be remembered as one of the finest to ever play"

Everyone could be better (or worse) if they were different. Yet it is who they are that defines them, not who they could have been "if...".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

This reminds me of the auction description that stated "Smith would have been a superstar if he only could have hit... if he could have boosted his average to the standards of the day, Smith might be remembered as one of the finest to ever play"

Everyone could be better (or worse) if they were different. Yet it is who they are that defines them, not who they could have been "if...".

I look at medical issues a little different. Maybe you don't and that is fine. Maybe you should have a chat with ole Kanye West too....You guys could be best buds .

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

I look at medical issues a little different. Maybe you don't and that is fine. Maybe you should have a chat with ole Kanye West too....You guys could be best buds .

What does Kanye West have to do with this? He would be a nice guy if he didn't have that mental issue of arrogance, so it sounds to me like you would be better friends with him than I would.


Mental issues still define you. Everyone is defined by their actions and the cause of those actions can always be traced to your mental stability.

Adrian wasn't to the extreme of Charles Manson, but even Charles Manson is known to have a "mental issue", he is a diagnosed Psychopath. Yet most people would not say "I think he has mental issues and if he got those under control would be a different person." Especially in a way to defend him or his actions.

Kleptomaniacs have mental issues that cause them to steal, but if you are the one stolen from does it clear them of the actions because they have "mental issues"? I just don't write off peoples actions as just being a "mental issue", you either have to seek help or be accountable for your actions.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

What does Kanye West have to do with this? He would be a nice guy if he wasn't arrogant
He has a mental issue he admitted to being arrogant.


Mental issues still define you. Everyone is defined by their actions and the cause of those actions can always be traced to your mental stability.

Adrian wasn't to the extreme of Charles Manson, but even Charles Manson is known to have a "mental issue", he is a diagnosed Psychopath. Yet most people would not say "I think he has mental issues and if he got those under control would be a different person." Especially in a way to defend him or his actions.

Kleptomaniacs have mental issues that cause them to steal, but if you are the one stolen from does it clear them of the actions because they have "mental issues"? I just don't write off peoples actions as just being a "mental issue", you either have to seek help or be accountable for your actions.

Yeah, that's it...Charles Manson, great analogy....Couldn't you at least thrown Hitler in there too?

For the record, I also hold people with mental issues accountable too and I think our society lets too many people off the hook because they say they have mental issues. But I don't forget they have them, if they really do. And I think Adrian really does. Even though he does have some issues doesn't mean I look past his actions. He isn't allowed on the forum, right? To each their own though...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yeah, that's it...Charles Manson, great analogy....Couldn't you at least thrown Hitler in there too?

For the record, I also hold people with mental issues accountable too and I think our society lets too many people off the hook because they say they have mental issues. But I don't forget they have them, if they really do. And I think Adrian really does. Even though he does have some issues doesn't mean I look past his actions. He isn't allowed on the forum, right? To each their own though...

In my analogy I pointed to the fact that was an extreme. The point is where does one stop looking at the actions of the person now instead of looking at the "what could have been IF...?" Mental issues or not, his current state have led people to think he is a "bad guy" .

So how do you decide when a guy is bad and when a guy is good that just does bad things because they have a "mental issue"?

Neither you nor I are qualified to diagnosis his mental stability and what caused him to be this way. He can only be judged on his actions, not his cause. No more than I can empathize with Ray Rice even if it is found that he defends his actions because he suffers some "mental issues".

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

This reminds me of the auction description that stated "Smith would have been a superstar if he only could have hit... if he could have boosted his average to the standards of the day, Smith might be remembered as one of the finest to ever play"

Everyone could be better (or worse) if they were different. Yet it is who they are that defines them, not who they could have been "if...".

Exactly. What's that line about if my aunt had a d*ck, she'd be my uncle?!

[clydepepper]

I do not know Adrian...only what I read from your posts. Generally, we are becoming far too forgiving as a society and I, personally, would enjoy this forum far less if he was to be let back in....I do not know why he was even brought up for discussion again. Any one who would say what he did to some of our more respected members has no place here.

Stay Strong Leon & keep him out! please!

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Generally, we are becoming far too forgiving as a society and I, personally, would enjoy this forum far less if he was to be let back in....

Quite the opposite IMO, we let mob rule and convict in the court of public opinion too many times without due process. Forgiveness is left for those who tend to serve our specific needs.

What Adrian said to Bill was despicable and reprehensible. But mental illness is a serious issue and quite possibly if we as a society learned how to deal better with this we may well avoid a lot of Robin Williams (depression), Kanye West (narcissism), John Hinkley (delusional) and many others.

I am not a therapist or a doctor but it seems to me one of the basic tenets of most religions or spiritual practices is forgiveness. Just think if everyone of us was not given forgiveness or 2nd chances.

I am by no means politicking for Adrian's return and my earlier post was made more in jest. I am just of the opinion that forgiveness is a good thing in general practice.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Generally, we are becoming far too forgiving as a society...

Aren't we supposed to forgive others?

That said, forgiving him and letting him back on the board are two different things. I vote to keep the ban in place. He can be forgiven and still be banned.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Aren't we supposed to forgive others?

Of course, should they ask for it and work to change their behavior. To do so otherwise is simply to ignore what wrongs they have done in the past while providing them a format to continue their actions in the future.

The direction we (as a society) are taking is towards pre-facto forgiveness on certain politically correct matters while at the same time pre-facto outrage on other politically correct matters. We're lumping it all into one bucket or another, depending not on the facts of an individual case, but on gross generalizations as the wind shifts.

As it relates to Adrian and what he said to Bill, it is up to Bill to "forgive" him and not us, though we can have an opinion on the matter and use those opinions for how each one of us want to deal with Adrian (or anyone). It is up to Leon on whether said actions should be allowed on his board (of which we are all guests), and his actions (obviously) show his decision, which goes well to indicate why many of us choose to be here.

[ullmandds]

well spoken...and I agree! It would make no sense for people who behave in such a manner to be allowed on this board...unless Leon wants this board to turn into a big pile of SHIT...which I can't imagine he would.

Originally Posted by tschock

Of course, should they ask for it and work to change their behavior. To do so otherwise is simply to ignore what wrongs they have done in the past while providing them a format to continue their actions in the future.

The direction we (as a society) are taking is towards pre-facto forgiveness on certain politically correct matters while at the same time pre-facto outrage on other politically correct matters. We're lumping it all into one bucket or another, depending not on the facts of an individual case, but on gross generalizations as the wind shifts.

As it relates to Adrian and what he said to Bill, it is up to Bill to "forgive" him and not us, though we can have an opinion on the matter and use those opinions for how each one of us want to deal with Adrian (or anyone). It is up to Leon on whether said actions should be allowed on his board (of which we are all guests), and his actions (obviously) show his decision, which goes well to indicate why many of us choose to be here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tschock

Of course, should they ask for it and work to change their behavior. To do so otherwise is simply to ignore what wrongs they have done in the past while providing them a format to continue their actions in the future.

The direction we (as a society) are taking is towards pre-facto forgiveness on certain politically correct matters while at the same time pre-facto outrage on other politically correct matters. We're lumping it all into one bucket or another, depending not on the facts of an individual case, but on gross generalizations as the wind shifts.

As it relates to Adrian and what he said to Bill, it is up to Bill to "forgive" him and not us, though we can have an opinion on the matter and use those opinions for how each one of us want to deal with Adrian (or anyone). It is up to Leon on whether said actions should be allowed on his board (of which we are all guests), and his actions (obviously) show his decision, which goes well to indicate why many of us choose to be here.

I prefer to think of it as "our" community. Without our members there is no community. I just help moderate the place so there isn't anarchy.
And you are correct Taylor, Actions speak louder than words concerning Adrian.... Anyone that really knows me knows I am the last person to make excuses....I always preach about looking in the mirror...That all being said I have mellowed over time like a fine wine. (did I just say that?)

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Leon

I prefer to think of it as "our" community. Without our members there is no community. I just help moderate the place so there isn't anarchy.

That was somewhat the intent of the "which goes well to indicate why many of us choose to be here." clause. It is your board, but you choose to set it up and moderate it in the manner you do, which gives it a good foundation towards the community it has become (IMO). But of course it couldn't survive without the members as well, most of which are not here for just the free popcorn.