OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

The Adam Dunn-Nolan Ryan comparison just seems ridiculious, IMO.

Let me say it one more time for those that have a problem understanding my point. It was not a Dunn-Ryan comparison. It was meant to show that one doesn't have to win certain awards to be inducted into the HOF. Earlier in the thread, several people mentioned that Dunn never won a MVP, etc., and therefore that was one of the reasons that he wouldn't be considered for the HOF. Ryan was mentioned (I could have used several other players to make my point, he just came to mind first) because he too never won an individual award (e.g. Cy Young), but it didn't keep him from the HOF.

My whole point is that one doesn't have to win a GG, SS, MVP, Cy Young, ROY, etc, to make the HOF. I simply made my point with Ryan, again it could have been one of many other players instead. If you still don't get my point, then maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

[Centauri]

Close in awards also matters. Ryan was top ten in Cy Young voting 8 times, top 20 in MVP voting 3 times. Dunn's best is a #21 finish in the MVP vote. IT is a terrible comparison. Ryan is a true all-time great, even among the HOF guys he is way up there. Dunn is just a guy - a good player, earning a good living playing baseball, soon to be forgotten.

[nolemmings]

It isn't about not winning an MVP. It's about not ever even being close to being an MVP. How can you claim to be a prominent player in your league if you never lead that league in any meaningful stat and you are not deemed to even make the top 20 in MVP?

Ryan finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting 6 times, and twice more in the top 10. He led the league in strikeouts --the meaningful kind where you throw the ball and not swing and miss-- 11 times and in ERA twice. Dunn?

Edited to add: I'm slow on the switch, that'll teach me to answer the phone!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Let me say it one more time for those that have a problem understanding my point. It was not a Dunn-Ryan comparison. It was meant to show that one doesn't have to win certain awards to be inducted into the HOF. Earlier in the thread, several people mentioned that Dunn never won a MVP, etc., and therefore that was one of the reasons that he wouldn't be considered for the HOF. Ryan was mentioned (I could have used several other players to make my point, he just came to mind first) because he too never won an individual award (e.g. Cy Young), but it didn't keep him from the HOF.

My whole point is that one doesn't have to win a GG, SS, MVP, Cy Young, ROY, etc, to make the HOF. I simply made my point with Ryan, again it could have been one of many other players instead. If you still don't get my point, then maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

David - you have brought up two HOF'ers (Ryan and Ozzie) during a discussion of whether or not Dunn is worthy. If you aren't comparing him to either of these guys, then please find a current HOF'er to actually compare him to. The Adam Dunn total package is lacking. The Nolan Ryan total package is better.

[D. Bergin]

Jeez, if a guy like Jeff Bagwell can't get much more then 50% of the vote, I really can't see Dunn getting the benefit of the doubt, even if he all of a sudden has a historical resurgence and ends up with 700 HR's.

If players like Dick Allen, Albert Belle, Frank Howard, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Dale Murphy can't even come close to sniffing the Hall, then Dunn won't get out of the first year of eligibility.

I remember guys belly-aching on here when Jim Rice got in, and he was the premier power hitter in the AL for nearly a decade.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Jeez, if a guy like Jeff Bagwell can't get much more then 50% of the vote, I really can't see Dunn getting the benefit of the doubt, even if he all of a sudden has a historical resurgence and ends up with 700 HR's.

If players like Dick Allen, Albert Belle, Frank Howard, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Dale Murphy can't even come close to sniffing the Hall, then Dunn won't get out of the first year of eligibility.

I remember guys belly-aching on here when Jim Rice got in, and he was the premier power hitter in the AL for nearly a decade.

Well said Dave....

[glchen]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Jeez, if a guy like Jeff Bagwell can't get much more then 50% of the vote, I really can't see Dunn getting the benefit of the doubt, even if he all of a sudden has a historical resurgence and ends up with 700 HR's.

If players like Dick Allen, Albert Belle, Frank Howard, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Dale Murphy can't even come close to sniffing the Hall, then Dunn won't get out of the first year of eligibility.

I remember guys belly-aching on here when Jim Rice got in, and he was the premier power hitter in the AL for nearly a decade.

I think the reason that Dunn is being argued is that if he continues his career, he may pass the 500 HR plateau. Previously, 500 HR's was a lock for the HOF, similar to 300 wins or 3000 hits. However, b/c of Dunn's historically low batting average and lack of MVP vote credentials, he would be one of the hitters that really would be stretching this milestone number. For the other hitters that were mentioned, either they have had some suspicion of PED use or they never hit the 500 HR number. I'm pretty sure most people believe that Dunn is clean especially b/c of his batting average number. He's like a Dave Kingman as others have mentioned.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think the reason that Dunn is being argued is that if he continues his career, he may pass the 500 HR plateau. Previously, 500 HR's was a lock for the HOF, similar to 300 wins or 3000 hits. However, b/c of Dunn's historically low batting average and lack of MVP vote credentials, he would be one of the hitters that really would be stretching this milestone number. For the other hitters that were mentioned, either they have had some suspicion of PED use or they never hit the 500 HR number. I'm pretty sure most people believe that Dunn is clean especially b/c of his batting average number. He's like a Dave Kingman as others have mentioned.

Gary, I've said it before but I think you missed it: the statement that 500 HR's is a lock for the HOF is FAILED LOGIC. '500 HRs' is not why these guys got into the HOF - it is only part of it. The guys with 500 HR's did a lot more than just hit 500 HR's. Adam Dunn has done a lot less.

[Davino]

FWIW, I used Dunn in a video game and he had TREMENDOUS power that stood out from even established home run hitters. LOL, this thread has been done to death.