t206 with no name

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Wasn't the name printed in the same pass as other parts of the image? If so, those parts should be missing as well. Are they missing in your scraps?

There are proofs without names: http://t206resource.com/Proofs%20Gallery.html

[mrvster]

it is complicated.....as Erick stated........I own(mcginnley, abbott, chance, and knight)..... 4 separate printers scraps with legit "no names".....some did receive the third stage of brown printing....some did not...really wild!

factory issued T206 "no names" are extremely rare, and extremely hard to prove.....that's why tpg's will not touch them with a 12 foot pole! leaves them up to too much liability....

the truth is, some forgeries with no name T206 are tough to disprove......the only way to determine is: smell it, taste it(yes sounds weird), put the black light on it, measure the caption field, and have it reviewed by the veterans.....even then it will always be suspect unfortunately...


sad for pete, cause his card may actually be the yeti

[Bpm0014]

Agree with Scott. That card is just too "complete" to be just missing the name. Don't get me wrong, I hope it is truly a "no-name", but I wouldn't bet on it. But good luck!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by t206hound

There are proofs without names: http://t206resource.com/Proofs%20Gallery.html

Thanks Erick.

Using the example of the one at the top right, the 'no name' has less brown than the 'with name' to the right of it.

Johnny - thanks for the explanation. Pete's card does appear to be 'too complete', as the previous poster noted, but to me this should be simple to figure out. Get a high-power magnifier and check out the area - there will almost certainly be evidence, or lack thereof.

Cycleback - thoughts?

[drcy]

I don't know how they did it with the T206s and haven't looked into it, but in some prints the black text is printed from its own, separate printing plate. I had Topps complete progression proofs for 1970s cards that showed they at least sometimes printed the text from its own printing plate. Progression proofs were a pre-final printing quaiity control series of card sheets, each sheet printed from a different combination of printing plates (yellow/blue plates, magenta/yellow plates, just yellow, just blue, just black, etc). Printers did this to make sure the printing aligned and the colors looked right before printing off the 10,000 or whatever finished cards. The proofs clearly showed the individual plates they used and, at least for the proofs I had, the front black text came from its own printing plate-- even separate from the other black parts (black outline around player's picture and black details in picture). One proof would have all the colors, including black, but wouldn't have the text. Another proof would have just the black border design and black details in the player's picture, again without the text. So the idea that just the text can legitimately be missing from a card is theoretically possible.

[steve B]

I'd like to see the high res scans. Too bad they're limited here.
I do think that card has enough lower border to have a shot at being real. A really close examination of that area should show if there's anything odd about the surface.

Interestingly, over in the postwar side one of the guys has demonstrated selectively fading a card with a method that leaves no obvious traces . It makes me wonder if it's possible with the brown on a T206 as it's dependent on the ink. Some fade more easily than others. From the sun faded cards I have I'd think not.

This is as close as I've come to a no name. Combination of a miscut and a downward shift of the brown that made the caption low enough to be "missing". It's actually there, but just the barest hint of the tops of two letters.



Steve B

[Runscott]

If it simply faded, would residue show up under a backlight? I know this is true of old baseball bats where there are no obvious remains of the original signature.

[drcy]

I don't know how just the name would fade away and everything else looks fine. However, infrared viewers are used to read badly faded ink. Archeologists use them to read ancient documents where the writing has faded to unreadability or even invisibility under daylight. But it's a hit or miss proposition. It either works or it doesn't, all depending on the chemical makeup of the ink. Though it did work for me on badly faded and unreadable side writing on a 1920s baseball bat. I took an infrared photo and was clearly able to read it. I still have the photo. I have an infrared camera, but would have to find the batteries

Police forensic experts use special viewers that view things using all sorts of lenses, lights and filters-- black light, infrared, different colors, polarization--, all in the name of discovering otherwise invisible details and minute objects. An expert would look at it through the spectrum of lights to see if something appears, and if there is something it likely would. That's how they find minute hairs and droplets of saliva at a crime scene.

[Runscott]

infrared, black, yellow, white - they are all lights.

We shall see, David.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd like to see the high res scans. Too bad they're limited here.
I do think that card has enough lower border to have a shot at being real. A really close examination of that area should show if there's anything odd about the surface.

Interestingly, over in the postwar side one of the guys has demonstrated selectively fading a card with a method that leaves no obvious traces . It makes me wonder if it's possible with the brown on a T206 as it's dependent on the ink. Some fade more easily than others. From the sun faded cards I have I'd think not.

This is as close as I've come to a no name. Combination of a miscut and a downward shift of the brown that made the caption low enough to be "missing". It's actually there, but just the barest hint of the tops of two letters.



Steve B

Peter was nice enough to send me a high res. scan. To me the bottom border seems cleaner/whiter overall than the rest of the card. I have no opinion on it being altered as I collected t206's for a few months and did not really care for them so I did no research on alterations.

In hand a good top lighted microscope would probably tell you. Besides black lights I have found the CFL lights will also make some alterations stick out like a sore thumb when the card is held close to the light and tipped.

[ullmandds]

Ben... Thank you for your opinion. Card is on the way to Seattle for forensic evaluation.

[Jantz]

Here is another