t206 with no name

[steve B]

I'd like to see the high res scans. Too bad they're limited here.
I do think that card has enough lower border to have a shot at being real. A really close examination of that area should show if there's anything odd about the surface.

Interestingly, over in the postwar side one of the guys has demonstrated selectively fading a card with a method that leaves no obvious traces . It makes me wonder if it's possible with the brown on a T206 as it's dependent on the ink. Some fade more easily than others. From the sun faded cards I have I'd think not.

This is as close as I've come to a no name. Combination of a miscut and a downward shift of the brown that made the caption low enough to be "missing". It's actually there, but just the barest hint of the tops of two letters.



Steve B

[Runscott]

If it simply faded, would residue show up under a backlight? I know this is true of old baseball bats where there are no obvious remains of the original signature.

[drcy]

I don't know how just the name would fade away and everything else looks fine. However, infrared viewers are used to read badly faded ink. Archeologists use them to read ancient documents where the writing has faded to unreadability or even invisibility under daylight. But it's a hit or miss proposition. It either works or it doesn't, all depending on the chemical makeup of the ink. Though it did work for me on badly faded and unreadable side writing on a 1920s baseball bat. I took an infrared photo and was clearly able to read it. I still have the photo. I have an infrared camera, but would have to find the batteries

Police forensic experts use special viewers that view things using all sorts of lenses, lights and filters-- black light, infrared, different colors, polarization--, all in the name of discovering otherwise invisible details and minute objects. An expert would look at it through the spectrum of lights to see if something appears, and if there is something it likely would. That's how they find minute hairs and droplets of saliva at a crime scene.

[Runscott]

infrared, black, yellow, white - they are all lights.

We shall see, David.

[drcy]

One of many things thing to do is to make sure the overall gloss and blacklight fluorescence is the same as on other T206s. There was a case of an altered T206 variation (one of those missing letter on the uniform variations) where the forger coated the front in a clear varnish-like substance to try and mask his handiwork. Ironically, what gave it away as altered was the buyer noticed that the card front was glossier than on his other T206s.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd like to see the high res scans. Too bad they're limited here.
I do think that card has enough lower border to have a shot at being real. A really close examination of that area should show if there's anything odd about the surface.

Interestingly, over in the postwar side one of the guys has demonstrated selectively fading a card with a method that leaves no obvious traces . It makes me wonder if it's possible with the brown on a T206 as it's dependent on the ink. Some fade more easily than others. From the sun faded cards I have I'd think not.

This is as close as I've come to a no name. Combination of a miscut and a downward shift of the brown that made the caption low enough to be "missing". It's actually there, but just the barest hint of the tops of two letters.



Steve B

Peter was nice enough to send me a high res. scan. To me the bottom border seems cleaner/whiter overall than the rest of the card. I have no opinion on it being altered as I collected t206's for a few months and did not really care for them so I did no research on alterations.

In hand a good top lighted microscope would probably tell you. Besides black lights I have found the CFL lights will also make some alterations stick out like a sore thumb when the card is held close to the light and tipped.

[ullmandds]

Ben... Thank you for your opinion. Card is on the way to Seattle for forensic evaluation.

[Jantz]

Here is another

[ullmandds]

personally...I believe that comparing vertical miscuts where there is very little bottom border...no names...to normally cut cards with large bottom borders with no names to be like comparing apples to oranges.

Time will tell if my card is legit or not...either way...the truth should be known.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

personally...I believe that comparing vertical miscuts where there is very little bottom border...no names...to normally cut cards with large bottom borders with no names to be like comparing apples to oranges.

I posted the Schmidt because of its full border. I didn't do the side-by-side. It just happen to be listed that way in the original scan that I borrowed. The Ebay seller had them scanned together a few years back in his/her auction.


Jantz

[ullmandds]

that's cool jantz...the schmidt is an apple!!!! but others are posting oranges...which I believe are very different.

[drcy]

For the record, I'm no trading card alterations expert, at least compared to anyone else on this board. My forte is authentication, not looking to see if a Kobe Byrant rookie card has trimmed edges or scanning 1985 Topps Roger Clemens for erasure marks. I've never had any desire to be a baseball card grader-- sounds about as inspiring as being an accountant. However, I'm not ignorant on the issue, and alteration detection can be a part of authentication. And I have the scientific equipment, including an infrared camera and digital microscope that can record microscopic photos and even video onto my laptop. At the least, I can post forensic photos to the board for others to see and critique. Apparently, Peter is sending the card to a board member who lives near me and I will eventually have a peak.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Jantz

I posted the Schmidt because of its full border. I didn't do the side-by-side. It just happen to be listed that way in the original scan that I borrowed. The Ebay seller had them scanned together a few years back in his/her auction.


Jantz

Did you buy the Schmidt? That one seemed a lot more likely to be a no name. I bid, but not enough. I did get the Barry as you can see from the scans.

Steve B