Bidding Strangeness - More Probstein123

[chernieto]

I feel for the OP who bought the card for more than 32% less than the last time Rick sold it....This criminal activity is so________, .
.
Rightly or wrongly I like a bidding environment where a 32%+ lower price can be had in comparison to the previous sell through price. there were 4 other bidders who were higher than the consignors shill bid.
Rick should let those who consign know that they should never bid on their own items. Seems obvious.
Maybe I shouldn't have removed my name from the Legendary auction bidder and mailing list after all. It seems they were able to keep prices more stable

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by chernieto

I feel for the OP who bought the card for more than 32% less than the last time Rick sold it.

I obviously still will participate in auctions run by Probstein123. However, I am also keenly aware that he has a problem policing consignor shilling. So, I always take a close look at the prior market. Before I even bid I recognized that he was selling the same card that sold several weeks ago again, so I kept my ceiling bid low and it just happened to hit. And then after I purchased it, I noticed that the same guy who won it weeks ago also bid in this one. So, it was pretty obvious to me what was going on. And given the concerns that a number of people on Net54 have with this seller, I thought it prudent to share. Because I think that educating us about the practices of certain sellers is a great function of Net54. How we each react to the information is a personal decision.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I obviously still will participate in auctions run by Probstein123. However, I am also keenly aware that he has a problem policing consignor shilling. So, I always take a close look at the prior market. Before I even bid I recognized that he was selling the same card that sold several weeks ago again, so I kept my ceiling bid low and it just happened to hit. And then after I purchased it, I noticed that the same guy who won it weeks ago also bid in this one. So, it was pretty obvious to me what was going on. And given the concerns that a number of people on Net54 have with this seller, I thought it prudent to share. Because I think that educating us about the practices of certain sellers is a great function of Net54. How we each react to the information is a personal decision.

...and all this information is greatly appreciated - Thanks

[Centauri]

When on eBay, I bid the price I am willing to pay. Sometimes I win, a lot of times I don't. I pretty much assume every auction has shills - it is too easy to do, and difficult to police.

I have gotten some pretty sweet deals with Probstein. If the price is fair, the shipping safe and timely, and the goods as advertised, that is good enough for me.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Centauri

When on eBay, I bid the price I am willing to pay. Sometimes I win, a lot of times I don't. I pretty much assume every auction has shills - it is too easy to do, and difficult to police.

I have gotten some pretty sweet deals with Probstein. If the price is fair, the shipping safe and timely, and the goods as advertised, that is good enough for me.

+1. It's hard to get taken if you simply bid what you're willing to pay, and have an awareness of the fair market value. Is there an entitlement to a bargain price, where the bidding putters out at a figure well below fair market value? True bargains on really rare and significant items simply don't come along very often. As we've discussed before, more than one major auction house has permitted shill bids to "Cha-Ching" an item to a higher level, up to but not exceeding a max bid, where the confidentiality of the maximum bid was not respected.

Interesting issue,

Larry

[Econteachert205]

When I worked at a local auction, some consigners would shill bid on items. For the auctioneer, who was a real honest guy, it was a helpless situation because the consigners were also buyers and to lose those customers on both ends in a small auction would have severely hurt. For bigger online auctions, I just don't understand why they don't have higher reserves, it would eliminate some of the more obvious shill bids

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

+1. It's hard to get taken if you simply bid what you're willing to pay, and have an awareness of the fair market value. Is there an entitlement to a bargain price, where the bidding putters out at a figure well below fair market value? True bargains on really rare and significant items simply don't come along very often. As we've discussed before, more than one major auction house has permitted shill bids to "Cha-Ching" an item to a higher level, up to but not exceeding a max bid, where the confidentiality of the maximum bid was not respected.



Interesting issue,



Larry

This horse has been beat to death in previous threads, but you're missing the fact that shilling artificially increases "fair market value." Shilling frauds honest collectors both directly and indirectly.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

+1. It's hard to get taken if you simply bid what you're willing to pay, and have an awareness of the fair market value.

Except that your perception of fair market is inflated because of rampant shilling and fraud.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Except that your perception of fair market is inflated because of rampant shilling and fraud.

This is a good potential example of that except the consignor/shiller was a bit daft. He set a high price with his first "win" but nobody who helped get his number so high came back last night.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Except that your perception of fair market is inflated because of rampant shilling and fraud.

yeah...that's the whole point here!!!!

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I obviously still will participate in auctions run by Probstein123. However, I am also keenly aware that he has a problem policing consignor shilling. So, I always take a close look at the prior market. Before I even bid I recognized that he was selling the same card that sold several weeks ago again, so I kept my ceiling bid low and it just happened to hit. And then after I purchased it, I noticed that the same guy who won it weeks ago also bid in this one. So, it was pretty obvious to me what was going on. And given the concerns that a number of people on Net54 have with this seller, I thought it prudent to share. Because I think that educating us about the practices of certain sellers is a great function of Net54. How we each react to the information is a personal decision.

I appreciate your sharing and awareness to call out the consignors shilling which many of us would have missed!